{"id":12954,"date":"2017-07-07T14:51:17","date_gmt":"2017-07-07T04:21:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/?p=12954"},"modified":"2018-05-09T08:13:42","modified_gmt":"2018-05-08T21:43:42","slug":"channel-9s-battery-bs","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/channel-9s-battery-bs\/","title":{"rendered":"Channel 9&#8217;s Battery BS"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_13004\" style=\"width: 710px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-13004\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13004\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/2017-07-05_12-21-52.png\" alt=\"9 news and batteries\" width=\"700\" height=\"482\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/2017-07-05_12-21-52.png 700w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/2017-07-05_12-21-52-300x207.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-13004\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Channel 9 recently aired a segment with some very wild claims about battery payback.<\/p><\/div>\n<p><em>&#8220;Hey everybody!\u00a0 Is your cornflake bill getting you down?\u00a0 Tired of spending a fortune on flaked corn?\u00a0 Want to slash your monthly cornflake bill down to zero?\u00a0 Well now you can, with the new Ron-Man Cornflake Storage Device.\u00a0 This compact unit is capable of fitting inside a single car garage and holds a 10 year supply of cornflakes.\u00a0 We guarantee you will never have to pay for another cornflake again for 10 whole years.\u00a0 That&#8217;s right!\u00a0 Free cornflakes for a decade!\u00a0 All you need to do is pay $12,000 up front for the unit and a $1 a day cornflake management fee.\u00a0 Who would have guessed free cornflakes could cost so little?&#8221;<\/em><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><em>&#8220;What&#8217;s more, it has a design life of 20 years<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/channel-9s-battery-bs\/#en-12954-1' id='enref-12954-1' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(12954)'>1<\/a><\/sup>!\u00a0 While there is no way in hell we will actually guarantee it for that long, you can be confident it will last for 20 years because we told you it would!&#8221;<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, I have some bad news, folks.\u00a0 The Ron-Man Cornflake Storage Device does not exist in reality.\u00a0 But who knows, maybe if I can line up the right investors, like, really stupid ones, I can make cornflake magic happen.<\/p>\n<p>The really astute observers among you may have realized the cornflakes the Ron-Man device provides aren&#8217;t really free.\u00a0 Instead of buying them from the supermarket as needed, you pay a huge upfront price and, for some reason, a cornflake management fee.\u00a0 Because of the limited amount of cornflakes it dispenses each day, not even the weirdest cornflake guzzling family is going to save money using it, so to describe the cornflakes it provides as being free is clearly nuts.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, when it comes to electricity provided by home battery storage, Channel Nine News appears to be clearly nuts.\u00a0 In a recent piece on the Sonnen battery they very much give the impression installing batteries now can save households money right now, rather than lose it, which is what they will currently do for any household that is remotely normal.<\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-wrapper\"><iframe title=\"Channel 9News: sonnenBatterie to take on the likes of Telsa\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/cKaINCOJwVg?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>If you want to see why battery storage does not yet make economic sense, I wrote all about it, using the example of the Powerwall 2, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/powerwall-2-payback\/\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2>The Story Begins<\/h2>\n<p>Channel 9 begins their tale with the story of Fred, who we are told,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Was fed up with an electricity bill that was topping $1,700 a quarter.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That&#8217;s a lot of electricity.\u00a0 If he lives where I think he lives that&#8217;s more than 3 times as much as the average family of 3 there uses.<\/p>\n<p>They tell us that Fred,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;first put in solar panels.\u00a0 That dropped his electricity bill to a little over $1,000.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>We are shown Fred&#8217;s roof, which has a total of 9 solar panels on it.\u00a0 I assume he has more where we can&#8217;t see them, because that&#8217;s very likely to total under 3 kilowatts, which isn&#8217;t going to come anywhere close to saving $700 a quarter or around $230 a month.<\/p>\n<h2>How Much Solar Does Fred Have?<\/h2>\n<p>Rooftop solar is a great investment and up around the Blue Mountains where Fred appears to live, it can have a simple payback period of under 6 years.\u00a0 But if Fred&#8217;s solar is saving him around $7.65 a day he must have a huge system.\u00a0 If he was paying 25 cents per kilowatt-hour for grid electricity and receiving a 6 cent feed in tariff, then with 50% self consumption his solar system would have to be averaging around 50 kilowatt-hours of electricity a day.\u00a0 In his location that would be roughly a 13 kilowatt system, which is quite large.\u00a0 If he is using 300 watt panels he&#8217;d need 43 of them, which is 34 more than we see.<\/p>\n<p>Most people with large solar systems self consume less than one-third of the electricity they produce, so if his self consumption was typical, then his system would need to be even larger.<\/p>\n<p>While it&#8217;s hard to make out, this screenshot of his screen suggests his solar output may be peaking close to or around 10 kilowatts, which suggests his system is 10 or perhaps more kilowatts.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_12989\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-12989\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12989\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/sonnenreadout.jpg\" alt=\"Sonnen screen screenshot\" width=\"600\" height=\"509\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/sonnenreadout.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/sonnenreadout-300x255.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-12989\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">A hard to read screenshot of a screen showing the Sonnenatterie interface.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>I want to make it very clear I am just speculating on what sort of system Fred might have and I am not suggesting he doesn&#8217;t know what he is talking about.\u00a0 After all, he does have a lathe in his garage and no man with a lathe is an idiot.\u00a0 Or as the complete traditional Dutch saying goes, &#8220;No man with a lathe in his garage and two hands is an idiot.&#8221;\u00a0 As my father always used to say, &#8220;Mijn zoon is een idioot die alles wat ik hem zeg, zal geloven.&#8221;<\/p>\n<h2>Sonnen&#8217;s Battery Prices Have Really Come Down<\/h2>\n<p>In order to further lower his electricity bills, Fred bought himself a 10 kilowatt-hour Sonnenbatterie.\u00a0 He said it cost him $12,000 to $13,000.\u00a0 That&#8217;s a lot cheaper than what Sonnen used to sell them for.\u00a0 The last figure I was given by them was around <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/battery-storage\/comparison-table\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$30,500 for 16 kilowatt-hours<\/a>.\u00a0 That&#8217;s around $1,900 per kilowatt-hour uninstalled, while it sounds like Fred got his installed for around $1,250 a kilowatt-hour.\u00a0 Just so long as this applies to people who aren&#8217;t Fred, it&#8217;s quite an improvement.<\/p>\n<h2>Fred Expects His Battery To More Than Halve His Electricity Bill<\/h2>\n<p>Fred says he expects his electricity bill to be around $200 to $300 a quarter with the battery.\u00a0 According to the figures Channel Nine presents that&#8217;s a reduction of around $750 per quarter for a total decrease of $3,000 a year.\u00a0 But Fred is more optimistic and says he expects to save $3,000 to $4,000 a year.<\/p>\n<p>That is a huge reduction and I can&#8217;t see how he worked that out.\u00a0 If we go for the middle of his estimate and assume he cuts his bills by $3,500 a year that comes to $9.58 a day.\u00a0 That&#8217;s close to $1 for every kilowatt-hour of battery storage he has.<\/p>\n<p>It is impossible to save that much.\u00a0 If he has a standard tariff and pays 30 cents a kilowatt-hour, a low feed-in tariff of 6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and he uses his full 10 kilowatt-hours of storage every day then, even if we ignore losses, the most he can save is $2.40 a day.\u00a0 Not over $9.<\/p>\n<h2>Time-Of-Use Tariffs Help, But Not By Enough<\/h2>\n<p>In Sydney there are <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/time-of-use-pricing\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">time-of-use<\/a> tariffs with very high peak rates that are now around 55 cents a kilowatt-hour, but in the area where my spies tell me Fred lives, looking at the first time-use-tariffs for AGL and Origin that come up, I see that, including discounts, AGL has a peak rate of 34.6 cents with a feed-in tariff of 11.1 cents while Origin has a peak rate of 32 cents with a feed-in tariff if 15 cents.<\/p>\n<p>This means that if Fred is on the AGL time-of-use plan then, ignoring losses, he will at best reduce his electricity bill by $2.35 a day, which is less than standard tariff example I gave.<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/channel-9s-battery-bs\/#en-12954-2' id='enref-12954-2' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(12954)'>2<\/a><\/sup><\/p>\n<p>There is also a morning peak and on a time-of-use tariff the Sonnebatterie is quite capable of charging with off-peak electricity overnight and using it during that morning peak.\u00a0 But as the morning peak is only two hours long it is impossible for Fred&#8217;s battery to fully discharge its 10 kilowatt-hours of storage in that time.\u00a0 But because the shoulder rate is very close to the peak rate and only 1.1 cents less, I&#8217;ll just pretend it is all discharged during the peak period.\u00a0 This will reduce electricity bills by an additional $1.63 bringing the maximum possible saving up to $3.98 a day or around $1,450 a year, which is less than half the expected savings Fred says he is expecting.<\/p>\n<p>The real situation is actually much worse than that.\u00a0 No one cycles their batteries twice a day.\u00a0 Or at least nothing human does.\u00a0 I have never seen anyone come close to doing it.\u00a0 In fact, I think I&#8217;ll offer a prize of $10 or a random item from my house, to the first person to show me evidence of a home that has averaged 2 or more cycles a day.\u00a0 (Note, depending on postage costs, the random item may be a horse.)\u00a0 Most people cycle their batteries around 0.8 times per day or less.\u00a0 A combination of Sonnen battery management and unusual electricity consumption patterns by Fred may get it considerably above 1, but it&#8217;s not going to get to 2.\u00a0 That&#8217;s ridiculous.\u00a0 But, if you can show me it&#8217;s not ridiculous, then you can be a winner.<\/p>\n<h2>Fred And Australian Consumer Law<\/h2>\n<p>Fred, if you are reading this, I&#8217;m sorry to have to break it to you that your battery is not going to save you as much as you hope.\u00a0 But just in case it proves useful to you, I will tell you about <a href=\"https:\/\/www.accc.gov.au\/consumers\/consumer-rights-guarantees\/consumer-guarantees\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Australian Consumer Guarantees<\/a> that protect you when you buy home energy storage, regardless of what a product&#8217;s written warranty says or what salespeople tell you.\u00a0 Your consumer guarantees include:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Products must be fit for the purpose the business told you it would be fit for and for any purpose that you made known to the business before purchasing.<\/li>\n<li>Products must meet any extra promises made about performance, condition and quality, such as life time guarantees and money back offers.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This means if your battery does not live up to promises that were made to\u00a0 you, either in writing or verbally, you are entitled to a remedy, which could be a repair, replacement or refund.\u00a0 For example, if you were told you would cycle it an average of twice a day and you do not then you are entitled to a remedy.\u00a0 If a salesperson told you it has a design life of 20 years, then they have given you are verbal warranty that it will last for 20 years that applies in addition to its written warranty of 10 years.<\/p>\n<p>If you told the salesperson the product had to reduce your electricity bills by $3,000 or more a year and it doesn&#8217;t, then you are also entitled to a remedy.<\/p>\n<h2>News Programs Should Occasionally Get Their Facts Right<\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/powerwall-2-payback\/\">In the past<\/a>, I&#8217;ve covered why batteries aren&#8217;t yet a better option than a term deposit or paying off the house.\u00a0 That hasn&#8217;t changed.\u00a0 Home battery storage is not yet cheap enough to make economic sense, not for households anywhere close to being normal.\u00a0 While the Sonnenbatterie has apparently come down a long way in cost, it&#8217;s not enough to change this and the recent electricity prices rises haven&#8217;t done the job either.\u00a0 Thanks to increases in feed-in tariffs the economics of batteries have gotten worse and I&#8217;ll soon write an article on that.<\/p>\n<p>I know there are plenty of battery boosters out there creating hype about batteries, but hype does not beat pulling out an envelope and doing a rough calculation on the back to determine whether or not batteries can pay for themselves.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately instead of getting their pencil and envelope out, Channel 9 went to Ivor Frischknecht of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, who said:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;They&#8217;re available today, they&#8217;re affordable today, they&#8217;re gonna get cheaper over time.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I hate to get all Meatloaf on you, Ivor, but two out of three ain&#8217;t bad:<\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-wrapper\"><iframe title=\"Meat Loaf - Two Out Of Three Ain&#039;t Bad (PCM Stereo)\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/k5hWWe-ts2s?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>Yes, batteries are available, they are going to get cheaper, but they are definitely not affordable today.\u00a0 Unless you are using some strange new definition of the word &#8220;affordable&#8221; which includes, &#8220;will lose a normal household money&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>I know it&#8217;s easy to get caught up in other people&#8217;s enthusiasm and forget about checking the figures.\u00a0 That&#8217;s how two of my marriages began.\u00a0 But it is important to remember to stop every now and then and pull out an envelope and scribble on the back of it.\u00a0 And I ask&#8230;\u00a0 No, I beseech Channel 9, please find someone who can give facts and not fluff.<\/p>\n<p>That someone is unlikely to be a company that only sells home battery systems.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;Hey everybody!\u00a0 Is your cornflake bill getting you down?\u00a0 Tired of spending a fortune on flaked corn?\u00a0 Want to slash your monthly cornflake bill down to zero?\u00a0 Well now you can, with the new Ron-Man Cornflake Storage Device.\u00a0 This compact unit is capable of fitting inside a single car garage and holds a 10 year [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[551],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-12954","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-battery-storage","entry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.4 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Channel 9&#039;s Battery BS - SolarQuotes Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Unfortunately, when it comes to electricity provided by home battery storage, Channel Nine News appears to be clearly nuts.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/channel-9s-battery-bs\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Channel 9&#039;s Battery BS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Unfortunately, when it comes to electricity provided by home battery storage, Channel Nine News appears to be clearly nuts.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/channel-9s-battery-bs\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"SolarQuotes Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/SolarQuotes\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-07-07T04:21:17+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2018-05-08T21:43:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/2017-07-05_12-21-52.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Ronald Brakels\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@BrakelsRonald\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@solar_quotes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/channel-9s-battery-bs\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/channel-9s-battery-bs\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Ronald Brakels\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/d0ce1779b3f5cb67cb4f146732af2fc7\"},\"headline\":\"Channel 9&#8217;s Battery 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