{"id":4736,"date":"2015-05-21T14:49:08","date_gmt":"2015-05-21T05:19:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/?p=4736"},"modified":"2023-04-10T08:01:47","modified_gmt":"2023-04-09T21:31:47","slug":"the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/","title":{"rendered":"The cheap &#038; cheerful way to add a Tesla Powerwall to your exisiting solar system?"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_4742\" style=\"width: 660px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/cheap-powerwall.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-4742\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4742\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/cheap-powerwall.jpg\" alt=\"a powerwall on a wall\" width=\"650\" height=\"427\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-4742\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">What might be the cheapest way to install a Tesla Powerwall + solar?<\/p><\/div>\n<p><strong>Note:<\/strong> The Tesla Powerwall 1 was released after this post and required a separate Battery Inverter and the existing solar inverter. The Powerwall 1 has since been superseded by the Powerwall 2, which has an integrated Battery Inverter &#8211; and AC couples to a solar inverter.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p><em>[Note: This blog post is an educated guess on how the Tesla Powerwall might work based on stuff Elon Musk has\u00a0publicly\u00a0said and the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.teslamotors.com\/presskit\">press section of their website<\/a>. So bear that in mind if making any decisions based on this post. Tesla have released sketchy and often contradictory technical details about the Powerwall, so it is impossible to be sure how the thing will work or integrate into an existing system. I&#8217;ve tried asking Tesla US and Tesla Australia for clarification, but with no luck.]<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Since Tesla announced their low cost home battery, many solar installers have been looking for the cheapest way to integrate one\u00a0into your home&#8217;s electrical system.<\/p>\n<p>This has led to the emergence of a whole new category of residential\u00a0solar system, that\u00a0had never really been considered here in Australia before the Tesla announcement &#8211; the not-very-catchy &#8220;Hybrid Solar Without Backup&#8221; system.<\/p>\n<p>This is a system which, to save thousands of dollars on the install, removes the ability for the batteries to power your home if the grid goes down. The batteries are only used to store solar energy. They cannot be used in an outage.<!--more--><\/p>\n<h3>Why remove the backup function?<\/h3>\n<p>Because (at the moment) it is very expensive to implement this functionality. You need a special battery inverter that can work in &#8216;island mode&#8217;. Such inverters start at about $3,000. On top of that, you may need to modify the house wiring so that high powered appliances like ovens and air conditioners can&#8217;t be used in &#8216;island mode&#8217; (as they could either overload the battery or empty it very quickly). \u00a0Things\u00a0can start to get very expensive.<\/p>\n<p>So\u00a0if you are happy to forgo protection from grid-outages, just how cheaply could you add a battery such as the Powerwall to your existing solar system?<\/p>\n<h3>Adding a Tesla Powerwall: The cheap &amp; cheerful way<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Requirements:<\/strong>\u00a0Your\u00a0inverter is compatible with the Tesla Battery Management System (BMS) and has a spare DC input.<\/p>\n<p>If you have a spare input on your inverter then Tesla have said that you should\u00a0be able to plug the Powerwall&#8217;s output directly into your inverter. No extra inverter needed.<br \/>\n<em><br \/>\n<strong>Update:<\/strong> there are mutterings that the Tesla DC-DC converter is so smart that it does not need a spare input and it can go between the panels and the inverter. I don&#8217;t understand how this would work without messing up the MPPT optimisation on the panels. I asked Elon Musk to clarify how this would work via Twitter, but he did not reply \ud83d\ude41<\/em><\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" lang=\"en\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/elonmusk\">@elonmusk<\/a> Can the Powerwall share a single inverter input with a solar array (without screwing the inverter&#8217;s MPPT optimisation) ?<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Finn Peacock (@Solar_Quotes) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/Solar_Quotes\/status\/610292350040969216\">June 15, 2015<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script src=\"\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" async=\"\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Further, Tesla have said\u00a0that you will be able to charge the Powerwall directly from your solar panels (i.e. there will be a built in DC charger). To share the DC output of the panels like this would\u00a0require the Powerwall&#8217;s Battery Management System (BMS) to talk to the existing inverter.<\/p>\n<p>If you have a big brand inverter (SMA, ABB, Fronius etc.) then the chances are that the Tesla will be able to talk to it (this is an assumption by me as Tesla have released very few technical details).<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve seen comments online saying that the Powerwall will work with any existing inverter. Not so. Tesla have <a href=\"http:\/\/www.teslamotors.com\/presskit\">explicitly said<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Powerwall consists of Tesla\u2019s lithium-ion battery pack, liquid thermal control system and software that receives dispatch commands from a solar inverter. &#8221;<\/p>\n<p>and<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Inverter: Pairs with growing list of inverters&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So you will\u00a0need a compatible inverter.<\/p>\n<p>The Powerwall will also need to know if there is surplus solar available to charge the battery. You don&#8217;t want to charge the battery with solar energy that is needed by the house. The inverter doesn&#8217;t have this information. It only knows about the output of your panels, not the power needs of your house.<\/p>\n<p>Tesla haven&#8217;t talked about this aspect of the Powerwall control system. But I can&#8217;t for the life of me see how the Powerwall will know when\u00a0to charge or how much to discharge, unless it knows how much energy your home is using. I&#8217;m happy to be wrong on this &#8211; please leave a comment if you think I&#8217;ve missed something bleeding obvious here!<\/p>\n<p>So\u00a0I think the\u00a0Powerwall will also have to talk to your import\/export meter. Unfortunately this is nigh on impossible with the majority of dumb Australian meters. But the installer can add\u00a0a cheap, $20 current-transformer (CT) on the output of your meter which will provide the required power measurement (note to Elon Musk: please add a port in\u00a0the Powerwall for a CT\u00a0&#8211; it will only cost a few cents!).<\/p>\n<p>The CT will\u00a0tell the Powerwall whether the home is importing or exporting energy, and whether it should either, charge, discharge or do nothing.<\/p>\n<p>The nature of the conversation will be this:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><em><strong>Powerwall (californian accent):<\/strong><\/em> Hi Inverter buddy! What&#8217;s those solar panels outputting dude?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Inverter (German accent):<\/strong><\/em>\u00a0Ve have 2.65 kW!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Powerwall:<\/strong> <\/em>And Mr CT, what&#8217;s the house drawing from the grid?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>CT (Chinese accent):<\/strong><\/em> The house is exporting 1.2kW to the glid.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Powerwall:<\/strong><\/em> Awesome dude, I&#8217;m not fully charged so I&#8217;ll start charging with that 1.2kW instead so we are exporting zero to that lame assed grid!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Hopefully you get the picture.<\/p>\n<p>Basically the battery will charge if it is not full\u00a0and there is spare solar.\u00a0It will discharge if the house would otherwise be importing expensive electricity from the grid.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[<strong>Note:<\/strong> That is a huge simplification! The Tesla software will make much more sophisticated decisions. Further, if it has got <a href=\"http:\/\/www.repositpower.com\/\">Reposit Power&#8217;s grid trading software<\/a> on it then it will crunch a heap more\u00a0inputs such as weather forecasts, wholesale market pricing and what time you usually use your appliances to decide whether to charge, discharge or do nothing. But this post is about hardware so forgive the simplification.]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>With this design (assuming a Tesla compatible inverter and a spare inverter input) the only extra hardware required is a $20 Current Transformer (assuming it can plug straight into the Powerwall) and some wire.<\/p>\n<p>If the power wall is mounted next to the meter, the cable runs will be very short, and the most difficult part will be mounting the 100kg on the wall.<\/p>\n<p>So you could be looking at installation for around $400.<\/p>\n<p>Add the Powerwall, installer markup, shipping and GST, and you should be able to get 7kWh of daily cycled batteries added to your system for around $6,000 AUD.<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>[Update: 11 Jun 2015. Elon Musk has just said that he expects the 7kWh Powerwall can be installed at a final, total cost to US consumers of $4,000 USD. <\/strong><\/em><em><strong>]<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s what the &#8216;cheap and cheerful&#8217; install\u00a0might look like:<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_4739\" style=\"width: 730px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/Slide4.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-4739\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4739\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/Slide4.jpg\" alt=\"block diagram\" width=\"720\" height=\"540\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-4739\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">How the Powerwall might be installed without backup<\/p><\/div>\n<p>If you are looking to buy solar, and want your system to be ready to accept a Powerwall as easily and cheaply as possible then <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/fb-hybrid.html\">here are the things you need to do to ensure your system is &#8220;Powerwall Ready&#8221;<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Note: The Tesla Powerwall 1 was released after this post and required a separate Battery Inverter and the existing solar inverter. The Powerwall 1 has since been superseded by the Powerwall 2, which has an integrated Battery Inverter &#8211; and AC couples to a solar inverter. &#8212;&#8211; [Note: This blog post is an educated guess [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[551],"tags":[172,552],"class_list":["post-4736","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-battery-storage","tag-hybrid-solar","tag-tesla","entry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.2 (Yoast SEO v27.2) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The cheap &amp; cheerful way to add a Tesla Powerwall to your exisiting solar system? - SolarQuotes Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"This blog post is an educated guess on how the Tesla Powerwall might work based on stuff Elon Musk has publicly said and the press section of their website.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The cheap &amp; cheerful way to add a Tesla Powerwall to your exisiting solar system?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This blog post is an educated guess on how the Tesla Powerwall might work based on stuff Elon Musk has publicly said and the press section of their website.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"SolarQuotes Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/SolarQuotes\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-05-21T05:19:08+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-04-09T21:31:47+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/cheap-powerwall.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Finn Peacock\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@FinnPeacock\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@solar_quotes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Finn Peacock\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/495c35fb3086e6ef93220dcf2472b178\"},\"headline\":\"The cheap &#038; cheerful way to add a Tesla Powerwall to your exisiting solar system?\",\"datePublished\":\"2015-05-21T05:19:08+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2023-04-09T21:31:47+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\"},\"wordCount\":1278,\"commentCount\":51,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"http:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/05\/cheap-powerwall.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"hybrid solar\",\"tesla\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Battery Storage\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-AU\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/the-cheap-cheerful-way-to-add-a-powerwall-to-your-exisiting-solar-system\/\",\"name\":\"The cheap & cheerful way to add a Tesla Powerwall to your exisiting solar system? 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Separately that would\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Battery Storage&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Battery Storage","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/battery-storage\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"powerwall 3 and possum","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/powerwall3-possum-magic.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/powerwall3-possum-magic.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/powerwall3-possum-magic.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/powerwall3-possum-magic.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/powerwall3-possum-magic.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":72600,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/tesla-powerwall-installer-perspective\/","url_meta":{"origin":4736,"position":1},"title":"The Pleasures &#038; Sorrows Of Tesla&#8217;s Powerwall: An Installer&#8217;s Perspective","author":"Anthony Bennett","date":"April 10, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"SolarQuotes has sometimes faced accusations of lacking independence, with critics suggesting Tesla must be footing the bill for our positive coverage of the Powerwall. 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Or is Elon\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Battery Storage&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Battery Storage","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/battery-storage\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Tesla Powerwall 2 - installer perspective","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/tesla-powerwall-medals.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/tesla-powerwall-medals.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/tesla-powerwall-medals.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/tesla-powerwall-medals.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/tesla-powerwall-medals.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":9611,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/tesla-kills-off-dc-powerwall-2-ac-version-delayed\/","url_meta":{"origin":4736,"position":2},"title":"Tesla Kills Off DC Powerwall 2. AC Powerwall Delayed","author":"Ronald Brakels","date":"March 2, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"I was just relaxing by listening to the musical version of the Massacre of Mankind when I suddenly got some news from the solar grapevine[1. 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