{"id":8324,"date":"2016-11-30T12:35:04","date_gmt":"2016-11-30T03:05:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/?p=8324"},"modified":"2016-12-19T16:05:13","modified_gmt":"2016-12-19T06:35:13","slug":"battery-warranties","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/battery-warranties\/","title":{"rendered":"Unwitting Warranties: A Ticking Time Bomb For The Battery Industry"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_8593\" style=\"width: 660px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-8593\" class=\"size-full wp-image-8593\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/Salesman_Batteries.jpg\" alt=\"dodgy battery sales guy\" width=\"650\" height=\"480\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/Salesman_Batteries.jpg 650w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/Salesman_Batteries-300x222.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 650px) 100vw, 650px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-8593\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">As soon as a battery manufacturer says this, your battery magically gets a 20 year warranty in Australia. No matter what the warranty document says.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>The other day a salesperson give me the rundown on a home battery system he had on display.\u00a0 While it wasn&#8217;t cheap, it certainly appeared to be a very impressive piece of technology.\u00a0 The salesperson clearly had a lot of confidence in it because, even though its written warranty was only for 10 years, he very generously doubled that to a 20 year warranty without batting an eyelid.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_8362\" style=\"width: 541px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-8362\" class=\"size-full wp-image-8362\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/batman.jpg\" alt=\"Ben Affleck had his eyes batted for two hours a day in preparation for this role. \" width=\"531\" height=\"372\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/batman.jpg 531w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/batman-300x210.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 531px) 100vw, 531px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-8362\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ben Affleck would bat his eyelids for two hours a day in preparation for this role.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>We weren&#8217;t related, so nepotism wasn&#8217;t the reason for his generosity.\u00a0 And it wasn&#8217;t because I saved his life in Nam&#8230;bour.\u00a0 (That <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Moreton_Central_Sugar_Mill_Cane_Tramway\" target=\"_blank\">sugar cane train<\/a> could be really dangerous.)\u00a0 We weren&#8217;t old schoolmates, and as hard as it may be to believe, he wasn&#8217;t taken in by my charm and good looks.<\/p>\n<p>No, the reason why he gave me a 20 year warranty was simply because he didn&#8217;t realize he was giving one.\u00a0 Or possibly, he did realize he was giving one and really hates his company.<\/p>\n<p>He gave me a 20 year warranty when he told me the battery system had a design life of 20 years.\u00a0 According to <a href=\"http:\/\/consumerlaw.gov.au\/\" target=\"_blank\">Australian Consumer Law<\/a>, if a salesperson makes a statement that a reasonable person would conclude to mean that a product can be expected to last for 20 years, then that counts as a 20 year warranty.\u00a0 It doesn&#8217;t matter that this warranty was given verbally or that it is twice as long as its written warranty, legally it still counts.<!--more--><\/p>\n<h2>Unwitting Warranties Are A Ticking Time Bomb<\/h2>\n<p>Currently the residential battery industry is unintentionally giving away extended warranties willy-nilly and it is going to bite them on the bottom when consumers take them to court because a system they had been led to believe would last for 20 years stopped working after only 12.<\/p>\n<p>There are many battery manufacturers who don&#8217;t realize the huge amount of potentially business destroying liability they are setting themselves up for by failing to ensure they aren&#8217;t unwittingly giving customers free extended warranties they never intended to.<\/p>\n<p>They can be quite shocked when they do find out what they have done.<\/p>\n<h2>Anecdotal Evidence<\/h2>\n<p>Finn recently attended a talk on Australian Consumer Law at a solar energy conference.\u00a0 He asked the lawyer speaking if a salesperson stating a battery had a design life of a specific number of years counted as giving a warranty for that long.\u00a0 The speaker said it definitely did.\u00a0 At the end of the talk the representative of a Chinese manufacturer came up to Finn and asked, &#8220;Is this true?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>When Finn assured him it was he looked dismayed and walked away shaking his head, presumably calculating how much trouble his company was in as a result of these Australians and their crazy consumer laws.<\/p>\n<p>If battery manufacturers and resellers are to avoid being legally required to cover warranties they never intend to give, then many are going to have to immediately change the way they talk about and sell batteries.<\/p>\n<h2>It Is More Serious Than Solar Panel Warranties<\/h2>\n<p>The situation is quite different from the one with solar panels and their <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/warranty-and-law\/\">performance warranties<\/a>, as many people aren&#8217;t going to bother to chase down the manufacturer when one panel fails, because a replacement may soon only cost $100.\u00a0 But battery systems are much more expensive and people will be much more likely to go to small claims court to get their money back if their battery system doesn&#8217;t last as long as they were led to believe.<\/p>\n<h2>Australians Got Consumer Guarantees<\/h2>\n<p>Under Australian Consumer Law all goods sold by businesses for under $40,000 or over $40,000 if normally bought for personal or household use, come with a set of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.accc.gov.au\/consumers\/consumer-rights-guarantees\/consumer-guarantees\" target=\"_blank\">consumer guarantees<\/a>.\u00a0 These guarantees include, but are not limited to, the product being safe and performing as described.\u00a0 But a very important one I see people in the home battery industry repeatedly ignoring is <em>any express warranties must be honored<\/em>.<\/p>\n<h2>Express Warranties<\/h2>\n<p>Any home battery systems sold by a business are automatically covered by Australia&#8217;s consumer guarantees.\u00a0 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.accc.gov.au\/business\/treating-customers-fairly\/offering-warranties#express-warranties\" target=\"_blank\">Express warranties<\/a> are any additional promises made about the performance of the product, whether written or verbal.\u00a0 The written warranty a product comes with is one type of express warranty, but they also include any verbal promises made by salespeople.<\/p>\n<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if salespeople didn&#8217;t realize they were giving a warranty, had their fingers crossed, or kept repeating, &#8220;Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.&#8221;\u00a0 The business must live up to any promises made, even if they were unintentional.<\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-wrapper\"><iframe title=\"Grin Grin, Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge, Say No More\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PLRZ0dIvwHY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>Statements don&#8217;t even have to be in the form of a promise to become an express warranty.\u00a0 All that&#8217;s required is for a customer to have reasonably concluded from the information they were given that they could expect a product to last a certain number of years or provide a certain level of performance.<\/p>\n<p>If a customer is told a product has a design life of 20 years they can reasonably conclude it will last 20 years.\u00a0 If they are told how much they could save over 25 years, then they could reasonably conclude it will last for quarter of a century.\u00a0 If they are told a system has 10 kilowatt-hours of capacity but aren&#8217;t told it will degrade over time they could reasonably expect it to have 10 kilowatt-hours of capacity until it reaches the end of of whatever they&#8217;ve been told its design life is.<\/p>\n<h2>Design Life<\/h2>\n<p>If you sell batteries, don&#8217;t say they have design life longer than the warranty you are willing to give.<\/p>\n<h2>Payback Time Estimates<\/h2>\n<p>If an estimate of the payback time of the system is provided that covers more years than the written warranty of the battery system, then that estimate becomes an express warranty.\u00a0 At one battery sales pitch that was disguised as a lecture by getting a <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ross_Garnaut\" target=\"_blank\">prominent Australian economist<\/a> to talk about renewable energy at the beginning, a salesperson gave an estimate of how much a household could save by using rooftop solar plus their battery system over a 25 year period.<\/p>\n<p>They didn&#8217;t make any mention that replacement battery systems would be required over this time, so anyone in the large crowd of people who were there could quite reasonably conclude the battery system could last for 25 years.\u00a0 Maybe the company that gave the seminar is quite happy to replace battery systems over a quarter of a century when their written warranty was only for 10 years, but I very much doubt they are.<\/p>\n<h2>Battery Degradation<\/h2>\n<p>I constantly see battery systems being presented as having X kilowatt-hours of storage with no mention that in 5 or 10 years time their actual capacity could be X minus several kilowatt-hours. To get an idea of how much batteries are likely to deteriorate it is necessary to go digging into their written warranties and even then they may not have any solid figures but just a vague statement about &#8220;normal wear and tear&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>This puts manufacturers into a particularly dangerous position, because if the written warranty doesn&#8217;t give any numbers, then customers will only have other sources of information to go on such as advertising and what salespeople tell them, and if those sources lead them to reasonably conclude that its stated capacity is for its entire warranty period, this means they have been given a 100% capacity warranty.\u00a0 And there are very few batteries on the market that can manage <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/redflows-zinc-bromide-zcell-battery-may-have-the-edge-over-lithium-ion\/\">that<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s a similar situation for <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#roundtripefficiency\">round trip efficiency<\/a> figures.\u00a0 Not once have I seen it mentioned that these can decline over time.<\/p>\n<h2>Battery Suppliers Can Be Liable<\/h2>\n<p>If a supplier merely states what the battery manufacturer&#8217;s warranty is, then they are fine.\u00a0 They are not responsible for it.\u00a0 But if they make any promises or declarations, or say anything that could reasonably be understood to mean the battery system will last longer than what the manufacturer&#8217;s warranty covers, then they are responsible for any express warranty they give that goes beyond the manufacturer&#8217;s.<\/p>\n<h2>Salespeople Need Crystal Clear Instructions<\/h2>\n<p>If you are a manufacturer or a reseller who employs people to sell batteries for you and you don&#8217;t want them putting you on the hook for who knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of liability, you are going to have to train them to never accidentally give an express warranty you are not fully okay with.\u00a0 They have to be crystal clear on exactly what they can and can&#8217;t promise.<\/p>\n<p>If your sales staff are under pressure to shift units no matter what, then you can end up with huge problems down the line as they may be tempted to say whatever it takes to make a sale.<\/p>\n<p>Any advertising, company literature, or payback time estimates needs to be checked to ensure that no one could reasonably conclude that you are providing a warranty that you don&#8217;t want to give.<\/p>\n<h2>Manufacturers&#8217; Warranties May Need To Be Improved<\/h2>\n<p>Battery manufacturers may think they won&#8217;t suffer any additional liability if they just provide a written warranty and don&#8217;t make any promises beyond what&#8217;s contained in it, but that&#8217;s not necessarily true.\u00a0 Written warranties may need to be improved to be internally consistent.<\/p>\n<p>For example, the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/new-lg-chem-resu-batteries-smaller-powerful-cheaper-powerwall\/\" target=\"_blank\">manufacturer&#8217;s written warranty for the LG Chem RESU<\/a> battery promises they will retain at least 60% of their nominal storage capacity for either 10 years or until they provide a specified number of kilowatt-hours of storage based upon their size.\u00a0 That&#8217;s all reasonably straight forward and not a problem.<\/p>\n<p>The warranty goes on to state that if they no longer produce RESUs they will have the option of compensating the customer with cash if their system fails to meet the terms of the warranty.\u00a0 Offering a refund is perfectly fine according to Australian consumer law, but where the warranty falls down is in the amount that is offered.<\/p>\n<p>While they will refund 100% of the purchase price of a RESU that fails in its first 2 years, the amount rapidly falls so that a RESU that is 5-6 years old will only receive 30% of its purchase price and one that is 9 years old will only receive 2%.<img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-8293\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/108.png\" alt=\"% of purchase price refunded vs. year of failure\" width=\"700\" height=\"500\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/108.png 700w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/10\/108-300x214.png 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/>LG Chem doesn&#8217;t have to offer to refund more than this in their written warranty.\u00a0 But because they have issued a warranty that is for 10 years or a given amount of stored electricity, then it is reasonable for a customer to assume that if their RESU fails after 8 years after having used only 80% the total amount of storage its written warranty covers, then they are entitled to a refund of at least 20% of its purchase price, as they have only gotten 80% of the use out of it as they quite reasonably expected to from its warranty.\u00a0 They could take LG Chem to their local consumer tribunal\u00a0under Australian Consumer Law and I am confident\u00a0LG Chem would be required to give a refund of at least 20% of its purchase price and not 4%.<\/p>\n<h2>Customers &#8211; Get Everything In Writing!<\/h2>\n<p>If you are a customer shopping for a home battery system, you may think, &#8220;Great, all I need to do is get the salesperson to say it has a design life of 20 years and I can easily double the warranty!&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, it&#8217;s not quite that simple.\u00a0 If you end up taking it to court you will probably need some evidence you were given that verbal warranty.\u00a0 For some reason, courts are really picky about evidence.\u00a0 So if you want a free extended warranty when a salesperson flies off at the mouth, I suggest you get everything they promise in writing.<\/p>\n<p>You could try recording them, but it&#8217;s definitely polite to ask for permission first, and with the possible exceptions of Victoria, Queensland, and the Northern Territory, it&#8217;s a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.mst.com.au\/legality-of-secretly-recording-conversations-in-australia\/\" target=\"_blank\">legal requirement<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>And note that even if a salesperson is happy to provide a written document which states a system&#8217;s design life is 20 years, then that company may be an irresponsible one that won&#8217;t be around in 15 years time when your battery system breaks down.<\/p>\n<h2>There Is Still Time To Defuse This Bomb<\/h2>\n<p>Home battery storage is almost certainly going to be huge industry in Australia.\u00a0 But it has hardly gotten underway at the moment.\u00a0 The first battery system that has a chance of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/tesla-powerwall-2\/\">paying for itself<\/a> when used on-grid has only recently been announced and its first installation is still months away.\u00a0 There is still time for staff to be trained and documents to be changed to prevent the explosion in warranty claims that may occur if those in the residential battery industry do not stop unwittingly giving warranties they do not wish to honor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The other day a salesperson give me the rundown on a home battery system he had on display.\u00a0 While it wasn&#8217;t cheap, it certainly appeared to be a very impressive piece of technology.\u00a0 The salesperson clearly had a lot of confidence in it because, even though its written warranty was only for 10 years, he [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10,"featured_media":8593,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":true,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[551],"tags":[83],"class_list":["post-8324","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-battery-storage","tag-warranties-solar-panels-2","entry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.4 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Battery Storage Warranties - What you need to know.<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"As soon as a battery seller says a battery should last 20 years, your battery magically gets a 20 year warranty in Australia. No matter what&#039;s in writing.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/battery-warranties\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Unwitting Warranties: A Ticking Time Bomb For The Battery Industry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"As soon as a battery seller says a battery should last 20 years, your battery magically gets a 20 year warranty in Australia. No matter what&#039;s in writing.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/battery-warranties\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"SolarQuotes Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/SolarQuotes\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-11-30T03:05:04+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2016-12-19T06:35:13+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/11\/Salesman_Batteries.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"650\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"480\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Ronald Brakels\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@BrakelsRonald\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@solar_quotes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Ronald Brakels\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/d0ce1779b3f5cb67cb4f146732af2fc7\"},\"headline\":\"Unwitting Warranties: A Ticking Time Bomb For The Battery Industry\",\"datePublished\":\"2016-11-30T03:05:04+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2016-12-19T06:35:13+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":2173,\"commentCount\":13,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2016\\\/11\\\/Salesman_Batteries.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"Warranties\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Battery Storage\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-AU\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/\",\"name\":\"Battery Storage Warranties - What you need to know.\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/battery-warranties\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.solarquotes.com.au\\\/blog\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2016\\\/11\\\/Salesman_Batteries.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2016-11-30T03:05:04+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2016-12-19T06:35:13+00:00\",\"description\":\"As soon as a battery seller says a battery should last 20 years, your battery magically gets a 20 year warranty in Australia. 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