{"id":9729,"date":"2017-03-28T13:38:13","date_gmt":"2017-03-28T03:08:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/?p=9729"},"modified":"2024-01-25T09:06:28","modified_gmt":"2024-01-24T23:36:28","slug":"byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/","title":{"rendered":"BYD Brings B-Box To Battery Battleground"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_10182\" style=\"width: 660px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-10182\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10182\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/BYD-B-Box-Battery-ALT.jpg\" alt=\"BYD B-Box\" width=\"650\" height=\"480\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/BYD-B-Box-Battery-ALT.jpg 650w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/BYD-B-Box-Battery-ALT-300x222.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 650px) 100vw, 650px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-10182\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The BYD B-Box Battery. Is it the perfect B-Boy Beat-Box Battery?<\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bydbatterybox.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">BYD<\/a> is the world&#8217;s largest manufacturer of rechargeable batteries \u00a0Those three letters stand for Build Your Dreams and apparently their dream was to build a battery box and sell it in Australia because that&#8217;s exactly what they&#8217;re doing with their B-box battery systems.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>There are 2\u00a0product lines &#8211; the High Voltage<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-1' id='enref-9729-1' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>1<\/a><\/sup> (HV) and Low Voltage (LV) B-Boxes, each in a variety of storage capacities.<\/p>\n<p>The one most likely to be used for home energy storage is the B-Box LV Residential, which comes in 4 sizes.\u00a0 The smallest being\u00a0the <strong>B-Box 2.5<\/strong> with 2.45 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#kwh\">kilowatt-hours<\/a> of usable storage and the biggest, the <strong>B-Box 10<\/strong> with 9.8 usable kilowatt-hours.<\/p>\n<p>The B-Box batteries pack more power per kilowatt-hour of storage than almost any other system.\u00a0 Its batteries are lithium iron phosphate, which is the safest lithium chemistry on account of how you have to really screw up big time to set them on fire.<\/p>\n<p>So far BYD has only confirmed a retail price for the <strong>B-Box 10<\/strong> which is $8,734 including GST.\u00a0 Provided its average number of cycles per day is not too low but not more than one, the B-Box 10 will have a warranted cost per kilowatt-hour of 34 cents.<\/p>\n<h2>BYD is huge<\/h2>\n<p>BYD is a massive Chinese company headquartered in <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Shenzhen\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Shenzhen<\/a>, a city of 12 million immediately north of Hong Kong.\u00a0 Many people have not heard of BYD despite it being bigger than Tesla<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-2' id='enref-9729-2' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>2<\/a><\/sup>.\u00a0 BYD has around 220,000 employees and a market capitalization of about $22 billion.\u00a0 That&#8217;s over $900 per Australian.\u00a0 It&#8217;s so much money that if I took it all in $100 notes and laid them end to end they&#8217;d reach all the way from Melbourne to the loony bin I&#8217;d be locked up in.\u00a0 (Darwin.)<\/p>\n<p>BYD manufactures batteries, LED lights, solar panels, trains, and monorails.<\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-wrapper\"><iframe title=\"The Monorail Song- The Simpsons.\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/KGg5rfBfWT4?start=54&#038;feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>They don&#8217;t just produce more batteries than Tesla<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-3' id='enref-9729-3' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>3<\/a><\/sup>, they produce the most rechargeable batteries in the world.\u00a0 Or at least they do according to BYD.\u00a0 When someone tells me a figure like that I immediately wonder if they&#8217;re talking about number of battery cells produced or total capacity, but either way BYD busts outs batteries by the busload, so they&#8217;re definitely not a two-bit battery business.<\/p>\n<p>They are also the world&#8217;s largest producer of electric cars, selling <a href=\"https:\/\/cleantechnica.com\/2017\/01\/25\/china-electric-car-sales-demolish-us-european-sales\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">around 100,000 in 2016<\/a> while Tesla only sold about 76,000. So why has hardly anyone here heard of BYD electric cars?\u00a0 Probably because they kind of suck.\u00a0 In fact, I&#8217;d say they suck exactly as much as Japanese cars used to, so we can probably safely ignore them without any repercussions.<\/p>\n<p>In addition to electric cars, BYD also makes electric buses<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-4' id='enref-9729-4' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>4<\/a><\/sup> and they are going to <a href=\"http:\/\/reneweconomy.com.au\/chinas-byd-to-build-40-new-electric-buses-in-australia-82768\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">build 40 of them in Australia<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2>B-Boxes Use The Safest Lithium Battery Chemistry<\/h2>\n<p>The B-Boxes&#8217; batteries are lithium Iron Phosphate.\u00a0 This is the safest lithium chemistry as it is very difficult to get these batteries to overheat and undergo <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Thermal_runaway#Batteries\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">thermal runaway<\/a>, which is where they uncontrollably raise in temperature and catch fire.\u00a0 Thermal runaway is also known as &#8220;venting with flame&#8221;.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_9949\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-9949\" class=\"size-full wp-image-9949\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/roasting.jpg\" alt=\"Roasting Batteries\" width=\"600\" height=\"330\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/roasting.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/roasting-300x165.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-9949\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Here we see a BYD lithium iron phosphate battery roasting on an open fire and very conspicuously not venting flame.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>If someone tells you lithium iron phosphate batteries are immune to thermal runaway, that&#8217;s not true.\u00a0 They simply\u00a0 haven&#8217;t tried hard enough.\u00a0 However, as they need a temperature of over 480 degrees to suffer thermal runaway they are much safer than those dangerously unstable lithium batteries we use in our phones and laptops.\u00a0 (I am of course typing this in my laptop enclosure, which is a fire resistant structure separate from my home<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-5' id='enref-9729-5' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>5<\/a><\/sup>.)<\/p>\n<p>Chinese electric cars normally use <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#lifepo\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LiFePO4<\/a>\u00a0 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries\u00a0and not\u00a0the higher performance <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#nmc\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">NMC<\/a>\u00a0(lithium nickle manganese cobalt) batteries used by Tesla and others.\u00a0 This makes\u00a0Chinese electric vehicles\u00a0simpler and cheaper &#8211; \u00a0although\u00a0with reduced performance.<\/p>\n<p>But it does mean China is getting a lot of practice producing lithium iron phosphate\u00a0batteries which I believe will soon become\u00a0the cheapest and\u00a0best for stationary storage.<\/p>\n<h2>B-Box LV Residential Specifications<\/h2>\n<p>Here&#8217;s a table I lifted from a BYD brochure showing technical specifications of the B-Box LV Residential systems.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-9918\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsmall-1.jpg\" alt=\"B-Box LV Residential Specs\" width=\"664\" height=\"459\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsmall-1.jpg 664w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsmall-1-300x207.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 664px) 100vw, 664px\" \/><\/p>\n<h2>The B-Box LV Residential Needs\u00a0An Inverter<\/h2>\n<p>The B-Box LV Residential is not just a battery.\u00a0 For your money you get lithium iron phosphate batteries, a not very sexy cabinet, and a battery management system.\u00a0 This is a lot better than just a stack of batteries, but it will need a compatible <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#multimodeinverter\">multimode<\/a> (hybrid) inverter to work.<\/p>\n<p>BYD says compatible inverters are SMA, GoodWe, SolaX, and Victron. \u00a0 We have been told more compatible inverters will be announced\u00a0soon.\u00a0 Since BYD is a huge company, I think there is an excellent chance this will actually happen.<\/p>\n<p>The correct inverter will allow <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#dccoupling\">DC coupling<\/a>\u00a0to solar and backup power during blackouts. \u00a0It can also\u00a0be <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/glossary.html#accoupled\">AC coupled<\/a>, although this\u00a0makes backup more challenging and may\u00a0even\u00a0be prohibited\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/powerwall-2-as4777\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">due to a silly clause in Australian Standard AS4777.1:2006<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2>These Are High Power Batteries &#8211; Perfect for Tea Drinkers<\/h2>\n<p>The B-Boxes have high power output.\u00a0 As far as I know it is only exceeded by the German-made <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/battery-storage\/comparison-table\/\">BMZ ESS3.0<\/a>.\u00a0 The <strong>continuous<\/strong> power B-Boxes can supply is equal to their nominal storage capacity.\u00a0 This means the B-Box 10 can give 10.24 kilowatts of power continuously and go from fully charged to flat in a little over 57 minutes. That&#8217;s very impressive.<\/p>\n<p>Their <strong>peak<\/strong> power is also excellent.\u00a0 They can give twice their continuous output for 3 minutes which is far better than most batteries and long enough to boil the kettle.<\/p>\n<div class=\"youtube-wrapper\"><iframe title=\"\u2018BLESSED ARE THE TEAMAKERS\u2019 - office tea rap\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/EV_6IW9RpMA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>When <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/systems\/off-grid\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">off-grid<\/a>, it is also useful for starting pumps, air conditioners, and other devices with electric motors.<\/p>\n<p>High power output means less electricity gets\u00a0drawn from the grid when household demand is high or, if used off-grid, it managing loads is easier.\u00a0 It also gives an advantage to those who can sell electricity to the grid during limited periods of time using a system such as <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/will-reposit-really-halve-the-payback-time-of-your-battery\/\">Reposit<\/a>.\u00a0 More power allows you to sell more electricity during these periods<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-6' id='enref-9729-6' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>6<\/a><\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, just how much power the B-Box can supply and how rapidly it can\u00a0charge is limited by the inverter it is attached to.<\/p>\n<h2>B-Box LV Residential: Size, Weight, And Weather Resistance<\/h2>\n<div id=\"attachment_10013\" style=\"width: 190px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-10013\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10013\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxlvresidential.jpg\" alt=\"The B-Box LV Residential cabinet\" width=\"180\" height=\"394\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxlvresidential.jpg 180w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxlvresidential-137x300.jpg 137w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 180px) 100vw, 180px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-10013\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The B-Box LV Residential cabinet: One size fits all.\u00a0 (Provided all is 9.8 kilowatt-hours or less.)<\/p><\/div>\n<p>The B-Box LV Residential is not a small battery system.\u00a0 It is 173 cm tall, 62 cm wide, and 32 cm deep.\u00a0 That&#8217;s about the height and width of a refrigerator, but only around half the depth.\u00a0 It doesn&#8217;t matter whether it is the B-Box 2.5 or the B-Box 10, the cabinet size is the same.\u00a0 Weight starts at 100 kg for the B-Box 2.5 and increases in steps of 35 kg until the B-Box 10 comes in at 205 kg.<\/p>\n<p>This means that, while I am a little taller, I&#8217;m not sure I could beat the B-Box 7.5 in a fight because it has a slight weight advantage.<\/p>\n<p>I also have to admit the B-Box cabinet is a lot less sexy than the Powerwall 2 case.\u00a0 But if you find yourself concerned over which battery enclosure is the most sexy, or indeed find them sexy at all, perhaps you should seek professional help.\u00a0 I know I have.<\/p>\n<p>The cabinet&#8217;s <a href=\"http:\/\/www.dsmt.com\/resources\/ip-rating-chart\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ingress Protection rating<\/a> is IP55, which means it is suitable for indoor or outdoor installation.<\/p>\n<h2>Operating Temperature Range Could Be An Issue<\/h2>\n<p>BYD&#8217;s brochure states the B-Boxes have an operating temperature range from 0 to 50 degrees.\u00a0 If this refers to the temperature of the battery itself, then this makes it suitable for installation almost anywhere in Australia.\u00a0 Even if the air temperature occasionally drops below freezing, the thermal mass of the batteries will prevent them doing the same.<\/p>\n<p>But the B-Box warranty document says that in order for the warranty to apply:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;4.7\u00a0 The ambient temperature during the operation of the product must not exceed 0 \u2103 ~50 \u2103 temperature range&#8230;&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This is very different, because ambient temperature refers to the local air temperature which means the only capitals where it could be installed outdoors are Darwin, Brisbane, and probably Perth<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-7' id='enref-9729-7' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>7<\/a><\/sup>.\u00a0 The other capitals are too cold in winter, as is central Australia.<\/p>\n<p>Fortunately, lithium iron phosphate batteries are quite capable of safely operating if the ambient temperature is below zero, provided the battery isn&#8217;t.\u00a0 So I think it is likely BYD will drop the word &#8220;ambient&#8221; from their warranty, or at least they will if they want to sell many B-Boxes here.<\/p>\n<p>While lithium iron phosphate batteries are more resistant to deterioration caused by heat than other lithium batteries, it is still a good idea to install it out of direct sunlight.<\/p>\n<p>The B-Box has no fan and no active cooling system.\u00a0 The BYD brochure says it is &#8220;nature cooled&#8221; which is a term I don&#8217;t approve of because it makes me think koalas will come and fan it with palm fronds or bees will gather at its grates and blow air into it with their wings.<\/p>\n<p>As there is no active cooling there is no fan which means it should be completely silent.\u00a0 If it does make noise then you probably have a problem.\u00a0 Maybe a lock picking possum has moved inside.\u00a0 But you can expect any multimode inverter you attach to have a mild hum.<\/p>\n<h2>Efficiency? No Idea.<\/h2>\n<p>One piece of information BYD doesn&#8217;t offer is how efficient their batteries are.\u00a0 I presume this is because it is nothing special.\u00a0 The round-trip efficiency of a lithium iron phosphate battery is typically around 92%.\u00a0 This means for every 100 kilowatt-hours of energy\u00a0put into the battery 8 kilowatt-hours will be lost.\u00a0 A small amount of energy will also by lost by its multimode inverter, so the overall efficiency might be around 89%.<\/p>\n<h2>Higher Voltage And Professional Versions<\/h2>\n<p>In addition to the B-Box LV Residential there are two other types &#8211; the B-Box HV and the B-Box Professional.<\/p>\n<h2>The B-Box HV Needs\u00a0A Sunny Boy Storage<\/h2>\n<div id=\"attachment_10010\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-10010\" class=\"wp-image-10010 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxhv.jpg\" alt=\"The B-Box HV\" width=\"300\" height=\"282\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-10010\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The B-Box HV looks like an electronic beehive or possibly a stack of copier paper.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>The B-Box HV has a built in DC converter which means it can accept a higher DC voltage than other B-Boxes.\u00a0 The drawback of this is the only way it can be connected to a home at the moment is with a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/sma-sunny-boy-storage\/\">Sunny Boy Storage<\/a> battery inverter.\u00a0 While this will allow it to be AC coupled to any home regardless of what kind of inverter the rooftop solar system has<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-8' id='enref-9729-8' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>8<\/a><\/sup>, it limits both charging and discharging of the B-Box HV to 2.5 kilowatts.\u00a0 As the smallest B-Box HV has a continuous power output of 5.6 kilowatts, this means the Sunny Boy Storage won&#8217;t even be able to provide half its potential continuous power.<\/p>\n<p>There are 5 B-Box HV models.\u00a0 The smallest has 5.26 kilowatt-hours of usable storage, while the largest has 9.47.<\/p>\n<p>Like the B-Box LV Residential, it can be located indoors or outdoors, but its casing is considerably sexier and looks like an electronic beehive.<\/p>\n<h2>The B-Box Professional &#8211; Do Not Get Wet<\/h2>\n<div id=\"attachment_10011\" style=\"width: 184px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-10011\" class=\" wp-image-10011\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxprofessional.jpg\" alt=\"The B-Box Professional\" width=\"174\" height=\"213\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-10011\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The B-Box Professional.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>The B-Box Professional is very similar to the B-Box LV Residential, but its capacity can go one step larger.\u00a0 Also, its cabinet is black and squat and probably the sexiest of the lot.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, with an enclosure protection rating of IP20, it can only be located indoors and cannot be exposed to water at all.<\/p>\n<p>At 88 cm tall, 60 cm wide, and 51 cm deep, it takes up more floorspace than the other two types.<\/p>\n<h2>The B-Box Warranty: beware the\u00a0smallprint<\/h2>\n<p>The BYD brochure simply states the B-Box warranty is 10 years without giving any qualifications.\u00a0 Under <a href=\"http:\/\/consumerlaw.gov.au\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Australian Consumer Law<\/a> that means BYD is saying its warranty is 10 years without limits on use.\u00a0 I think BYD will probably want to change this, because its written warranty definitely has limits.<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t have warranty information for the B-Box HV or the B-Box Professional, but the B-Box LV Residential is warranted for either 10 years or until it supplies 2,500 kilowatt-hours of stored electricity for each kilowatt-hour of nominal storage.\u00a0 The warranty promises that by its end the B-Box will maintain at least 60% of its original usable capacity.<\/p>\n<p>This graph and table from the warranty document sets it all out:<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-9937\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxwarranty.jpg\" alt=\"BYD B-Box warranty information.\" width=\"662\" height=\"470\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxwarranty.jpg 662w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bboxwarranty-300x213.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 662px) 100vw, 662px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>The warranty states BYD will repair or replace defective B-Boxes, or if they no longer make them they will either replace it with something similar or give a pro-rated refund.<\/p>\n<h2>The Warranty Limits B-Boxes To One Cycle A Day<\/h2>\n<p>Under preconditions, the B-Box LV Residential warranty states:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;4.8\u00a0 The product can only be installed and operated in household energy storage applications with an average of one full cycle per day&#8230;\u00a0 The warranty will be voided if usage exceeds household energy storage applications.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That is a unique warranty condition and I don&#8217;t see how it makes sense, especially if it&#8217;s a strict cutoff where they will void your warranty if you average 1.1 cycles a day.\u00a0 It would be even stranger if they decided the condition meant they could void the warranty for averaging below 1 cycle a day.\u00a0 While many people are likely to only cycle their batteries around 0.8 times a day, a higher figure is certainly possible.\u00a0 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/will-reposit-really-halve-the-payback-time-of-your-battery\/\">Reposit<\/a> says households using their technology on a time-of-use tariff will on average cycle their batteries&#8230;<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;in excess of 1 and up to 1.3.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So with their precondition, BYD has basically eliminated all potential customers who want to use Reposit or a similar system that will boost their average cycles per day, and anyone who is simply unsure whether their daily cycles will average above one.\u00a0 While it would be possible to stop using the B-Box for a while if its average cycles were about to go over one, most people are unlikely to find this solution satisfactory.<\/p>\n<p>The one cycle limitation makes no sense because the warranty clearly limits the number of kilowatt-hours\u00a0stored anyway.\u00a0 Not only do I think BYD have shot themselves in the foot here, I think they&#8217;ve done it while standing on a gas main.\u00a0 This is something they are definitely going to have to change.<\/p>\n<h2>The Warranty Tries To Sneak In Some Worrying Stuff<\/h2>\n<p>Unfortunately there are other things in the warranty that are weird, wrong, and simply not permitted under Australian Consumer Law.<\/p>\n<p>A long list of exemptions under which the warranty doesn&#8217;t apply is given and one of them is:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;6.10 The defect cannot be overcome under the technology condition when the products sold to customer.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I have no idea what the hell that means.\u00a0 I tried using Google Translate on that sentence but all it did was emit quiet sobs.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps BYD is saying, &#8220;If we don&#8217;t have the technology to fix a defect, your warranty is no good.&#8221;\u00a0 I hope that&#8217;s not what they are saying, but I really can&#8217;t tell.<\/p>\n<p>Another hilarious corker is they say they can update the warranty from time to time &#8211; after you&#8217;ve bought the product.\u00a0 NO THEY CAN&#8217;T!\u00a0 That is ludicrous!<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-9' id='enref-9729-9' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>9<\/a><\/sup>\u00a0 There is no way in hell any company can change a written warranty or any kind of warranty after a product has been sold.\u00a0 Not in this country.<\/p>\n<p>Luckily we are always protected by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.accc.gov.au\/consumers\/consumer-rights-guarantees\/consumer-guarantees\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Australian consumer guarantees<\/a> no matter what a written warranty says.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_9756\" style=\"width: 710px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-9756\" class=\"size-full wp-image-9756\" src=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsaucer.jpg\" alt=\"BYD flying saucer\" width=\"700\" height=\"320\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsaucer.jpg 700w, https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/bydsaucer-300x137.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-9756\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">&#8220;Wherever you are, we power you better.&#8221; &#8211; Apparently even if you are in a flying saucer.<\/p><\/div>\n<h2>Warranted Cost Per Kilowatt-hour &#8211; Threading The Needle<\/h2>\n<p>BYD has given a price of $8,734 including GST for the B-Box 10. \u00a0That&#8217;s a\u00a0cost per warranted kilowatt-hour of 34 cents[1.\u00a0Assuming it deteriorates at a linear rate to 70% of its original usable capacity by the end of its warranty instead of the 60% allowed for, and is cycled from 0.84 to 1 time a day].<\/p>\n<p>If\u00a0cycled more than once per day its warranty is\u00a0voided. \u00a0If\u00a0cycled less than 0.84 times a day the cost will increase because\u00a0the warranty will hit its 10 year limit before reaching its\u00a0maximum warranted stored kilowatt-hours.<\/p>\n<p>So assuming BYD will void your warranty if you cycle it more than an average of once per day, and assuming they won&#8217;t void it if you do it less than that, your average cycles will have to fit within a limited zone if you want the lowest warranted cost per kilowatt-hour. \u00a0Or if you want a warranty at all.<\/p>\n<h2>It Won&#8217;t Pay For Itself<\/h2>\n<p>The B-Box won&#8217;t save households money when used for on-grid storage.\u00a0 Its cost of 34 cents per warranted kilowatt-hour is considerably higher than the 23 cents of the still-not-yet-available Powerwall 2 and that does not need a multimode inverter like the B-Box.<\/p>\n<p>But BYD is a huge company and so the B-Box or its successors will likely\u00a0be around for some time.\u00a0 If they want to be successful they will have to be competitively priced, so provided the Powerwall 2 works as promised<sup class='endnote'><a href='https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-brings-b-box-battery-battleground\/#en-9729-10' id='enref-9729-10' onclick='return hhEndnotes_show(9729)'>10<\/a><\/sup>, then I expect BYD will soon lower their prices to give Tesla a run for their money.<\/p>\n<p>Also, they&#8217;ll need to remove the weird stuff in their warranty, but I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll get around to that too.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>BYD is the world&#8217;s largest manufacturer of rechargeable batteries \u00a0Those three letters stand for Build Your Dreams and apparently their dream was to build a battery box and sell it in Australia because that&#8217;s exactly what they&#8217;re doing with their B-box battery systems.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10,"featured_media":10182,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":true,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[551],"tags":[675],"class_list":["post-9729","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-battery-storage","tag-byd","entry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.4 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>BYD Brings B-Box To Battery Battleground - SolarQuotes Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The BYD B-Box Battery - is it the perfect B-Boy Beat-Box 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Master of heavily researched deep-dive blog posts, his relentless consumer advocacy has ruffled more than a few manufacturer's feathers over the years. Read Ronald's full bio.","sameAs":["https:\/\/x.com\/BrakelsRonald"],"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/author\/ronald\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/BYD-B-Box-Battery-ALT.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2FF2s-2wV","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":15089,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-b-box-panels-mb0211\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":0},"title":"BYD Installs First B-Box HV, Snags Major Panel Supply Deal","author":"Michael Bloch","date":"September 18, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"China's BYD has announced it has won a multi-million dollar solar panel supply contract and also installed its first high voltage B-Box battery system. The company says it will be supplying 170MW of BYD solar panels\u00a0 for NextEra Energy PV projects in North America. The deal represents BYD's largest single\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;General Solar &amp; Storage News&quot;","block_context":{"text":"General Solar &amp; Storage News","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/solar-battery-news\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"BYD B-Box HV battery system","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/byd-b-box-battery.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/byd-b-box-battery.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/byd-b-box-battery.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/byd-b-box-battery.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":77095,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-legacy-products-discontinued\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":1},"title":"BYD Battery-Box LV, HV &#038; Pro Discontinued. Expand Your System Now Or Never.","author":"Anthony Bennett","date":"July 20, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"The Clock Is Ticking for BYD's Legacy Battery Box Products Time waits for no one, which certainly rings true with solar and battery technology. BYD is set to stop manufacturing materials for some of their older battery systems. The main items on the discontinuation list are the B-Plus 2.5kWh modules,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Battery Storage&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Battery Storage","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/battery-storage\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"BYD Battery Box LV, HV & Pro","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/byd-b-box-discontinued.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/byd-b-box-discontinued.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/byd-b-box-discontinued.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/byd-b-box-discontinued.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/byd-b-box-discontinued.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":27130,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-sa-battery-scheme-mb0899\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":2},"title":"BYD B-Box Pro 13.8 Added To SA Home Battery Scheme","author":"Michael Bloch","date":"January 15, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"Choices of battery systems continue to grow in South Australia's Home Battery Scheme, with BYD the latest to be added to the list. BYD (which stands for Build Your Dreams) is a huge Chinese company headquartered in Shenzhen that boasts 240,000 employees globally. Founded in 1995, BYD manufactures solar panels\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;General Solar &amp; Storage News&quot;","block_context":{"text":"General Solar &amp; Storage News","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/solar-battery-news\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"BYD B-Box Pro 13.8","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/byd-bbox-battery.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/byd-bbox-battery.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/byd-bbox-battery.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/byd-bbox-battery.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":15719,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/byd-electric-bus-factory-mb0241\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":3},"title":"North America&#8217;s Largest Electric Bus Factory Unveiled","author":"Michael Bloch","date":"October 9, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"On Friday, BYD officially opened its expanded battery-electric bus manufacturing facility in the U.S. city of Lancaster in southern California - and it's fully powered by renewable energy. The expansion of the Coach and Bus space has seen the facility grow to nearly 41,800 square metres - close to quadruple\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;General Solar &amp; Storage News&quot;","block_context":{"text":"General Solar &amp; Storage News","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/solar-battery-news\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"BYD electric bus","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/byd-electric-bus.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/byd-electric-bus.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/byd-electric-bus.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/10\/byd-electric-bus.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":71978,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/best-home-batteries-2023\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":4},"title":"The Best Home Batteries In Australia In 2023: According To Installers","author":"Finn Peacock","date":"March 6, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"Every year we ask installers in the SolarQuotes network which batteries they would trust in their own family homes. We ask two questions to tease out the best batteries in Australia for both big-spenders and the budget conscious. Which brand would you install on your own home if money was\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Battery Storage&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Battery Storage","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/battery-storage\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Best home solar batteries in 2023","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/best-batteries-2023-header.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/best-batteries-2023-header.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/best-batteries-2023-header.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/best-batteries-2023-header.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/best-batteries-2023-header.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":83301,"url":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/modular-batteries\/","url_meta":{"origin":9729,"position":5},"title":"Modular Home Batteries Explained: All The Benefits &#038; Key Considerations","author":"Anthony Bennett","date":"May 13, 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The Tesla Powerwall is renowned for being a shiny white slab of energy storage, but what if you\u2019re willing to sacrifice some style for modularity? Are modular home batteries a better choice? At SolarQuotes we're sometimes accused of Tesla bias, but \"Powerwall\" has become a generic term for solar batteries.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Battery Storage&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Battery Storage","link":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/category\/battery-storage\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Australian electrician installing a modular home battery","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/modular-battery-install.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/modular-battery-install.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/modular-battery-install.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/modular-battery-install.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/modular-battery-install.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9729","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9729"}],"version-history":[{"count":69,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9729\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":81181,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9729\/revisions\/81181"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/10182"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9729"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9729"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.solarquotes.com.au\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9729"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}