Big batteries are going in fast. Too many are being left dumb, unsupported, and unable to earn their keep.
I was on ABC Adelaide this week to talk about the battery rebate. First question was easy. Has it been popular?
Hell yes.
Roughly 150,000 batteries in six months. That is a staggering number.
But then I said something that sucked the air out of the studio. About half of those batteries, from what I am seeing, are paired with sketchy gear and rushed installs. Big batteries. Cheap prices. Forty or fifty kilowatt-hours for peanuts.
A residential battery that size is not a simple box you bolt on for self-consumption and forget. Most homes need about 16 kWh for self-consumption + backup reserve. That leaves tens of kWh free to trade via dynamic tariffs or VPPs. That is also where things get tricky. Even if the electrical work just scrapes through, the battery configuration almost never does. Dynamic tariffs change all the time. Prices go negative. Export rules flip. Control logic needs tuning. Software needs updates. Someone has to take responsibility for that over years, not just on install day.
Cheap installs do not price that in. At all.
Then the calls started.
A Negative Experience
Ben rang up. He said he was on a tariff where prices can go negative. When that happens, he gets charged for exporting power. His system is meant to stop exporting when prices go negative. It is not doing that. Installer says talk to the energy retailer. Energy retailer is too busy to help.
I asked him a question. You are with Amber, right?
Dead silence.
I have been on ABC enough to know naming names is fine if you are not selling anything. And the silence said everything. Amber is flat out with the rebate surge. Support queues are long.
Ben then said he had been poking around his switchboard and turned off the breaker to his solar inverter. That stopped the exports. Which of course it did. I told him straight. This is not your job. You should not be fault-finding your own energy system. Your installer should be fixing this.
I do not know which installer Ben used or what he paid. I also do not know whether he asked his installer to set the system up for dynamic tariffs in the first place. If he did not, then it would be fair for the installer to charge for that work after the fact.
The problem is not that installers charge for this work. The problem is when it is never offered, never explained, or quietly skipped.
If the installer will not configure the system and Ben stays on a dynamic tariff, he will keep bleeding money. The safest move might be to switch back to a boring retailer with flat prices and no nasty surprises.
Ben did not want to hear that. I get it. People like the idea of being clever with power. They like seeing prices dance around on an app. But clever systems need proper setup and support. Lots of people bought batteries from installers who priced only for basic self-consumption. The result is batteries that save a fraction of what they could. In many cases, those people would have been better off paying more for solid hardware from an installer who allowed time for proper configuration and ongoing help as tariffs and rules change.
Not Everyone Is A Home Assistant Ninja
Yes, some people can do this stuff themselves. They know how tariffs work. They know how to configure an energy system. They know what settings to touch and which ones not to. They might even be Home Assistant ninjas. They are allowed to save a grand or two by using their own valuable skills and time.
Most people are not those people.
If you want a battery that earns its keep, plays nicely with dynamic pricing, and still functions properly three years from now, it will cost more upfront.
Cheap installs just send the bill later.
Phase Shift is a weekly opinion column by SolarQuotes founder Finn Peacock. Subscribe to SolarQuotes’ free newsletter to get it emailed to your inbox each week along with our other home electrification coverage.
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This is just like the majority of solar installers who don’t transfer electric storage hot water systems to run from solar in the middle of the day – instead they keep them connected to the off-peak grid supply ❌️. This means the abundant solar is not being maximised, self-consumption is less than it should be, and more grid electricity is being imported (with higher emissions) than necessary.
It is the consumers job to become knowledgeable about electricity use and have the technician organise the switching so this can happen at times chosen by the consumer.
A good installer should make recommendations but they can’t cater for consumer’s different requirements.
You are being unfair to installers.
Well said Brian. I had an economical battery installed last month, ($8100 with house backup, 42kwh system) installer explained and set up system really well. If I want a different set up there is quiet an amount of help from user groups amongst other areas. I will be returning power to the grid in peak times when it’s needed, a big battery is a wise choice.
Yes Phil. My heat pump was installed in July with the ‘default’ program time for it to be operating set for night time when my solar pv is not doing it’s thing. So I rang up the manufacturer who was able to step me through changing the display on and off times to daytime. Fine. Why can’t the things be set with a default to operate in daytime or why can’t the supplier installer simply ask customers when do they want it working?
On bloody tarrifs and batteries, OMG, I used to be pretty diligent with keeping track of my usage, export etc in my old place with my old system, but the complexity of trying to get a solar pv system and battery that does what it is meant to do without being screwed by retailers, distributors, governments, statutary authotities and everyone else is very discouraging. It is all very messy.
Rules are actually very simple..eg the most valuable thing I learned from.defensive driving courses was to assume every other driver is a homocidal maniac.. With electricity supply, , one must assume EVERYONE is out to gouge at every possible opportunity..The solution that always works with rooftop solar and batteries is oversizing and not exporting ANYTHING.
Hi Doug,
I like to think of exporting electricity as a way you can personally gouge a gentailer or coal burner.
Even if they pay you nothing, it still means either they’re not burning stuff, or better still it’s costing them money to burn stuff.
It is actually illegal to be ‘gouged’ or ripped off as a consumer of anything, especially essential services like electricity and water. We are meant to be protected by consumer law but energy companies have managed to exploit every possible means of ‘gouging’ their customers since privatisation started in Victoria with Kennett. We should not have to bloody shop around constantly to find the least rip off rates for electricity. If that’s not a red flag that the system ain’t working what is?
Problem with default settings is they don’t suit everyone. The default setting might add to an existing load resulting in use of electricity at peak rates.
Installers and manufacturers can’t be expected to know the requirements of every electricity user.
You did the right thing and changed the timing to suit yourself. Not difficult.
Thanks Brian. Well the default setting of night time operation my heat pump started with definately used a lot more grid electricity and cost me more. It would make more sense to have either a default daytime operation setting or at least the manufacturor and supplier having a simple yes or no for customers to choose either day or night operation. It actually wasn’t that easy for me to work out who to contact and then have the guy explaining to me what buttons to push whille I was standing outside in the rain.
Thanks for replying.
So many friends are getting McBatteries. Another very useful article for them, thanks Finn.
I’m very tech-savvy (an engineer) and also happy to tweak and adjust. I have a single PW2 at home, installed nearly 3 years ago. When the rebates started I did some simple sums. We have to draw from the grid in winter, so i thought hmmm, let’s see if I should change that with additional storage.
It never even got close to adding up to being a sensible thing to do. On the best scenarios I modelled it was going to cost me twice what just buying the power from the grid would cost me over 10 years, to add a second battery.
What supply tariff did you use to calculate that? If you’re on the wholesale tariffs you can’t really calculate what the costs of charging from the grid might be in the future. You can’t have a guess.
This summer so far I’m paying on average about 5cents per kWh through the day from 9am to about 5pm. (Can’t really use the grid much after 3pm though due to demand tariff). And then I sell that energy for about 15cents (on average) from 5pm to about 9 or 10pm.
Of cause there are extremes. On very hot days I might get a negative supply tariff or at least 2cents to buy from the grid and also in those days I might get $19 per kWh and that’s when you can make a bob or two but that’s not happening as much this summer (probably due to the growth in batteries).
But if you have a powerful battery (no so much a big battery) and can export at a rate of 10kW. Then charging from the grid certainly makes sense.
Hi Robert
I use OVO, so peak rate is over 40c/kWh, but I almost never use it, I get the 3 free hours 11-2 and then 8c/kWh midnight to 6am. I charge from the grid regularly, in those cheaper times. For 3 seasons out of 4 I use virtually no grid power at all.
When I compare the cost of installing a second battery against what it costs me to buy grid power to supplement usage in winter only, the battery would cost about twice as much. I could look at selling back to the grid with an extra battery, but again it would need to be more profitable than most estimates I’ve seen from using something like Amber, significantly more, to even get close to parity on cost.
Hi Nick
With Amber you are at the whim of the wholesale market which is different all over the NEM and the tariffs change every 5 minutes. This was quite profitable over the last two years due to constant spikes of up to $20 per kWh that would pay for the months usage and give you a nice profit.
The more powerful the battery the bigger the profit. Unfortunate my battery is old and not so powerful with a max output of 3.3kW. So I managed to avoid paying for electricity for two year including charging my EV but not much profit beyond that.
But so far this summer the spikes have not eventuated in the same number as the last two years. So I might have to cough up some money. But not so far.
I suspect the increase in batteries in the network is the cause of this lack of spikes so I’m suffering the same problem as all the coal generators. But I think that is the sort of problem we need to have as it indicates hopefully a drop in energy costs on average for all.
Hi Robert
I’m a big fan of what Amber are trying to do, though doubt it’s scalable right now, as Finn noted, they’re swamped. I ran their wholesale pricing data over a longer period when looking at it as an option for myself, and the peaks were not that common in the longer time series data that I saw. Plus in my case they don’t have a way to curtail solar production with micro-inverters anyway, which would leave me exposed to negative wholesale pricing.
Making money from a battery is a splendid aim. But a person needs to be constantly alert when doing that, and you need to make quite a lot to recoup what the battery costs. For now I’m sticking with the more aggressively-priced retailers, it’s easier. I think many who buy solar have this aversion to buying a single electron from the grid. I see the grid as just part of my domestic setup, a wonderful resource. Cheaper for me than a second battery at this stage.
Hi Nick,
Sounds like a perfectly rational approach.
Using a few watts from the mains is well cheaper than the roughly 4x bigger system you need to “go off grid”
However solar has always prompted a few people to spend irrational sums, just to stick it to the man.
Yes, so important to balance PV with battery and consumption. I don’t curtail either. Not because of micro inverters but because my system seems to be well balanced (by accident). Installed over 6 years ago it’s only 5 kWp PV and 15kWh battery. I do sometimes export negatively but it’s only small so doesn’t matter that much. Most of the time my car is at home so it can soak up any excess by varying the charge rate and the system calculates all that for me.
Must be almost impossible for people to visualise all this when first making decisions about what to install.
On the amber / microinverters curtailment question, this is actually achievable with them now, at least for enphase iq7’s in my experience. Enrol that enphase gateway with amber, and curtailment then works (this is working alongside amber remote management of a previously registered 3p sig battery / inverter).
There is absolutely no way known I will share my 80kwh battery with anyone, especially bloodsucking power companies..I deliberately oversized so that I can tell the grubs to go procreate with themselves. The up yours factor is far more significant to me than pure cost-effectiveness.
Did you use a rebate Doug? This is where I think public policy gets more complicated. Public subsidies I think can reasonably expect some level of mutuality in the use of the energy.
A responsible retail VPP would help protect a client against negative prices – it is so eminently feasible. It seems not only unprofessionally negligent, but professional malfeasance to bleed a client by facilitating export when that will not only not pay the client, but cost them money.
A VPP knows the next 5-minute energy price. To be fit for purpose, it must send that to all clients, for their local VPP app’s export/pause decision when it’s positive, and unconditionally pause when it’s negative.
If the VPP vendor does not supply a client app, which pauses export on negative price or loss of VPP contact, then they do not have a product which is fit for purpose, I submit.
In order for a VPP vendor to have a viable product, it must work reliably, to *always* benefit the client. And a client who pays a fee for rubbish which costs him money, needs to question his judgement, neh?
Discrimination: Ability to tell the difference between a sausage and a dog turd.
I will use amber as an example, not a excuse. Amber offer curtailment that stops supply export of negative tariffs. However not all inverters inverters are compatible. Incompatible systems need to carefully consider amber smartshift. . Users do need to know how to disable export and to self-curtail. Or just use another provider. Many just assume. Our 42kwh battery is supported but i dont trust amber to do this effectively. You must check and test.
I am waiting after a month and have concerns amber can even get their act together. Im close to cancelling my request. Their response to emails just pats you on the head. I fear the reality. Especially while its system learns your data. I see too many examples of people complaining in that period..
I dont like how amber market their services. They dont warn of the negative tariff issue well. Further they bait customers with crazy feed in rates that arent there. If they are they are less and short. Eg $120 per kw. The best i have seen is $23.
For more than 80 percent of the population of Canada, the electricity system is Provincial-govenment-owned.
So subsidized home or utility owned battery makes little difference, it’s the same pot of money either way
Batteries are not a big deal here, because at the scale it’s been installed, rooftop solar has little effect on total generation most of the year, but it does help measurably in midsummer.
But for those of us in that other 20%, solar and battery are the only way to use less fossil generation. I hope that despite this first major Australian rollout of home batteries not going perfectly, it’ll still displace a couple gigawatts of coal generation, and relieve some strain on the evening ramp-up.
And hopefully other governments will observe and learn from the good and the bad.
But Canada doesn’t do a lot of fossil fuel generation: for 2024 (2020) in Hydro was 56.1% (60.1%), Nuclear was 13.4% (14.6%), Combustibles 22.1% (5.7% Coal, 11.8% Natural Gas, Oil, and Others), and Renewables were 8.4% (7.8%).
For Australia you basically need to treat Hydro as Coal.
Alberta now generates more electricity from burning sawmill waste, than from hydro.
We have access for up to 1200 MW via transmission from BC Hydro in colder weather ( -15 C highs last week), but mostly we use natural gas for balancing, and sell the surplus wind generation when it’s warm enough (-4 C and sunny today at high noon)
Winter solar generation and battery discharge is so small that it’s hard to spot on a graph. At peak yesterday it almost reached 4% between 12:00 and 2:00, and peak battery output at 04:00 was 0.25%.
Wind output varied from 2% / 235 MW yesterday at noon, to 31% / 3,907 MW today at 10:00. The last remaining coal power plants in Alberta closed last July, taxpayers bought out their contracts in 2016 for $1.6 billion when the Trudeau government forced in a Carbon Tax.
In Ontario and New Brunswick, CANDU nuclear replaced coal starting in the 1970’s, and Ontario closed the last converted coal / wood chip plant about 2013.
https://www.dispatcho.app/
Randy Wester: – “In Ontario and New Brunswick, CANDU nuclear replaced coal starting in the 1970’s…”
An ageing fleet of 15 larger reactors being supplemented by perhaps 1 new SMR in the 2030s.
Per WNISR2025, page 258:
Per Figure 18 · Age of World Nuclear Fleets, Canada’s 15 operating power reactor units range in operating age from 32.5 years to 48.7 years with a mean age of 40.7 years.
Per page 340:
Hopefully the Canadian government can observe, and learn.
This rollout sounds like some parts have been a bit of a mess, but it’s impossible to believe that it’s not already doing some good, and easy to hope that with some tweaks the execution will improve.
In reality, Randy, the battery rollout has been a brilliantly managed strategic success beyond all expectations. (Even if accidentally) The initial A$2.3B paid 30% of battery cost, leading to a FOMO stampede, and average battery size at least doubling. Rampant market created, an additional A$5B subsidy now maintains momentum, with big-battery enthusiasts having to fund their excess over a mandated norm. That tweak spreads the subsidy wider, and is nearly enough to quieten the communists who want to own these majority privately financed batteries.
VPP connection not mandated means government policy is *not* feed-in, but peak load reduction. A thin grid remains viable much longer without expensive upgrades, if peak load is replaced by a lower average. Domestic firming does that, and that is *all* that the subsidy is buying. I.e. it subsidises the grid.
Prosumers’ issues with their VPPs are mostly failure to realise VPPs are made for VPP vendors, not disregarded prosumers. Stay or go?
I’m ambivalent on whether it was truly successful. It’s great that there are a bunch of batteries installed that otherwise wouldn’t exist… but I’d much rather see a larger number of smaller batteries than a smaller number of larger batteries. That would have done the greatest good, with or without VPPs.
When a small number of people buy massively oversized batteries with no intention to allow them to be used to their capacity, that just locks up resources for no real benefit other than the owner’s occasional satisfaction in riding out a few more grey days in winter. VPPs could unlock that potential and allow them to be properly utilised for real benefit.
Hopefully the rebate adjustment evens things out a bit and encourages sensible battery sizes. If every house in Australia had a right-sized system taking care of things behind the meter, we wouldn’t really need VPPs.
Just like with solar, there’s no scenario where one person’s using their house battery to store solar for later use and not need power from the grid on that cloudy day, that doesn’t benefit everyone else.
I don’t think there’s a reason to be concerned about anyone “locking up” batteries when cell production is steadily increasing, and factories are mot running at maximum. Think of solar cells, so many available they started making bifacial panels.
Also, larger batteries, cycled at a lower rate, and not charged / discharged as close to their capacity limits, should last for more years.
I dont know where this 30% comes from. Its not accurate. In my case our rebate exceed 45%.Our $32000 system of 30 pv solar panels +3phase 15kw inverter and 42kwh battery cost us $12000. And we sought possibly 10 quotes. Worst of all bunnings for which i can say nothing good then power company rip off deals, and some smaller installers. We had quotes of up to $63,000 pre rebate and so many at $45000 who all used scare tactics to belittle cheaper deals. The word china is used so often but ALL are chinese sourced. Worst are the Powerwall sellers. Its like a scam perpetuated to make them a mint.Then the next hard sell was sigenergy. I think they all attended a sales pitch seminar to scare people into paying more. Many calculated a rebate of exactly 30% leaving a far more expensive system. I think its a sales con..
Well, in Alberta, Canada there’s no rebate of any kind, and steep tariffs to pay on anything from China.
Solar has a payback that’s somewhere around 10 to 15 years, and batteries probably just the other side of never, at the 13 cent per KWh spread between purchaae price and sell price.
But probably I’ll still do it, in case we ever have realtime electricity pricing. Currently, there’s no time of use rates here because wind fluctuations are huge compared to solar.
Where did they advertise $120/kWh? The market cap is around the $23/kWh that you saw, so I would be surprised they would advertise any higher than that.
Thank you, Finn, for another great article on batteries. May I please request an in-depth update article that reviews and compares the current status of VPP providers and their offerings. The advertising of money-making VPP plans seems prolific, but the real-world experience of unhappy battery owners indicates that there may be hidden problems. Owners of smaller batteries seem to be disadvantaged by these schemes and their battery installers are unlikely to have warned them. It’s great to be able to return to an old-style energy retailer if a home owner is unhappy with their VPP, but looking at my energy retailer’s plans for new customers, I can see that my current plan is much better and that makes me reluctant to leave.
Thank you again for looking after so many Australians. You make the technical stuff much easier for the rest of us to understand.
Search vpp on the solar quotes site. There is a good table that compares all vpps..Its a good example of the limits of VPPs. And tyen hardware, location and curtailmment limits etc all apply.
Dont discount large batteries and smaller inverters as a bad idea. My decision to buy a larger battery was not so i can drain it in a day, but so it can last for several days in bad weather, particularly with no grid power.
Solar usage forums are also full of people with little idea of solar who have had their system in for a week and are complaining they cant get their exports to turn off / on when pricing changes hit because they thought they were going to make a motza trading electricity.
But what it comes down to to me, is it wouldn’t kill the companies that provide inverters to stick some decent online tutorials up on how to actually use their software. (And update the tutorials when they update the software) Most of the apps and browser based systems are far to complex for an installer to explain in 5 minutes on an unfamiliar app whilst the client is peering over their shoulder.
Youtube has some great help with good screen examples even if its the uk its same. I learned and have tested (!!!!) managing my foxess using the cloud 2 app. It seemed awkward initially and i took it off grid through exceeding limits but found i can import and export rapidly at 15kw and manage it in 6 minute periods quite capably. Its quite functional once you know how it works.
The installer suggested this. He was honest its too complex for a single set of rules. He said you will probably trip it out but dont panic. it did. He explained what to do if that happens. He told me what to change of it did. And why the basic settings are best not used. He showed me the ‘mode scheduler’ option which sounded complex but fiddling doesnt break anything and with trial you work it out. I compare it to buying a boat. Take it slow and safe and see what it does
Storm in a teacup. The rebates are changing, batteries will revert to being right-sized and this “problem” will go away.
If the VPP (i.e. Amber) is not doing its job properly then that’s on them, don’t blame the consumer or the battery system for a poorly performing retailer VPP. The solar/battery system must have been compatible for control to be bound to the VPP.
If they are having a poor retail experience then they have plenty of choice for something more suitable.
I live in FNQ & recently installed a 13.6kw battery. The installer recommended that I change to the Solar Soaker Tariff….offpeak, super offpeak & peak.
During the non aircon months, I rarely import from the grid, usually when it’s raining or overcast.
During the aircon months ( Nov to Feb), I do import from the grid at 7.7c per kw during super off-peak tariff if required eg rain/ overcast.
Even if the battery is completely empty, it only will cost $1.04 a day on the super offpeak rate to charge to 100% & keep me going from 4pm to 11am.
That’s a lot cheaper than buying an extra battery for $10k.
Really disagree with “16kwh is enough” rhetoric. I followed it, installed a 16kwh sigen with state rebate (on your and installer advice) and ended up getting an upgrade to a 40kwh unit with the federal rebate.
Bills went from $100s to $100s in credit. The last 24kwh were about 6.5k, so the payback is fast.
So my advice, go as big as you can afford, with a big inverter
That very much depends on where you live, how much grid power you consume, $/kWh and FiTs.
When I’ve run the on-grid numbers, including SQ’s calculator, it takes me something like 16 years to pay back the investment, and that’s not even counting the lost bank interest which is about $50 per year on every $1K spent! Off-grid savings are obviously much much higher, but so are costs. If the difference isn’t sufficient …
Remember, much of the battery cost is the first 0kWh you install. No that’s not a typo, the kWhs you add are much cheaper than actually getting the 0 kWh system so huge systems are actually vastly cheaper on a kWh basis than small (sub 20 kWh let alone single digit) systems for those with low grid consumption. Worse, if you need to replace your inverter because it’s not battery compatible …
Well put John,
Some people really can’t justify a battery on financial numbers, however some just want one and they’re happy it pays them back a little every night.
1kW of solar never made much sense when it cost $14,000 either, how the years have changed that equation.
Your comment assumes that return on investment is the only factor to be considered. Personally my primary incentive is independence from bloodsuckers intent on gouging.
Hi Doug,
Sticking it to the man has always been a primary motivator for solar customers. It’s something the incumbent industry and bureaucracy totally underestimated when solar was a new concept. They didn’t realise the threat and were quite open to encouraging this tiny and ineffective little bit of window dressing, which was good because they didn’t try any restrictive permitting or connection processes.
Now that 1kW has given way to 10kW system size and the price per watt is less than 10%… it’s happy days for us and panic stations for the DNSPs.
Sone utilities would happily drop all their reaidential and small rural customers, if they were allowed.
They don’t much care about homeowners with rooftop solar or a battery, because the great majority of their revenue comes from large customers.
Don’t expect them to chase you down the street to get you back if you go off grid. Not that it’s at all likely you will.
I agree, went with a 48kwh sigenstor on 3 phase. It’s looking like it’s going to earn around 3k a year, paying itself off in 11 years based on today’s rates.
I still think the real saving is not paying for power, these prices just keep going up, and the fits going down.
Hi Brad. Very happy for your predicted returns. I have the same system but can’t work the numbers to give back more than around $1200 a year. Would be grateful to know how many kWh you plan to export each day, the name of the energy provider and if the plan is location dependent. Many thanks, Andrew
Hi Andrew,
I’m on a fixed plan (Origin Battery Starter: ~5c FIT and ~18c peak 4-9pm) and I was working off the numbers in the Sigen app.
For a bit of context, yesterday I generated ~102 kWh and exported ~68 kWh to the grid.
Apparently the numbers in the Sigen app include avoided grid usage (savings) as well as any export value, so I’m realising this is going to look much higher than what actually shows up as credit on the bill. So I think I was a little mislead. It is showing between $8 and $20 a day, and has Jan at $120 so far.
I’m sure reality will hit once the next bill arrives (the origin app won’t display the $ value of feed in).
Cheers,
Brad
Hey, Brad.
Thank you for your reply. It was really helpful. Origin looks quite interesting.
I also noticed the same discrepency(?) on our SIG app and felt equally confused/misled. The funny one for us is that the app says that we’ve saved a tonne of coal and that this is the equivalent of just one tree.
Bit of a steep learning curve, but I’m content that it is all working well.
Thanks again for getting back to me.
Best wishes for 2026.
Andrew
I’m trying to understand how a 16kwh battery would suit most homes? You couldn’t possibly get full self consumption with something this small. Air conditioners alone can draw big numbers, surely this wouldnt provide whole house backup!
Amber was horrible, they say stick with them for 30 days to let the AI get good? All my power was curtailed… I regularly pull 100kwh a day from the panels.
I moved to origin for a fit of 5c all day and 18c between 4-9 pm. The sigenstor has its own AI which seems to be working well set to balanced. You can call the 48 kWh unit a mc battery if you want, but it’s getting solid use.