A fancy burger joint near the SolarQuotes office opened six months ago. It was small and stylish. And just closed down. I wasn’t surprised.
You see, Ned (who manages SolarQuotes’ installer vetting) once went in, asking for no mustard, and was flatly told no. “It disrupts the balance”, they said. “It’s part of the artistry”.
Give me a break. Ned hates mustard.
I respect anyone trying to run a small business. But that was a dumb decision. Food is subjective. You should be allowed to enjoy a burger without having to endure someone else’s opinion about what mustard tastes like.
I was reminded of Ned’s experience during a recent SolarQuotes Vetting Council meeting. We were reviewing new installer applications. One of the questions we always ask is: What brands of panels do you install?
Most answers are sensible.
- “We mostly use Jinko and Trina“. Or,
- “Canadian Solar or REC, depending on the budget”.
But now and then someone writes:
“Our go-to brands are X and Y, but we’ll install any brand the customer wants.”
Sounds generous. Consumer-friendly. The opposite of the hipster burger joint, right?
Not quite. In this case, I think it’s the customer who’s wrong.
Installers like MC Electrical know a lot more about solar than most customers – even after a session on ChatGPT.
Solar Is More Complicated Than Mustard
Because when it comes to solar, customers usually don’t know enough to make that kind of call. They don’t know what a clamp zone is, or an MPPT window, or that some panels are high-voltage, low-current, like the Canadian Solar panels MC Electrical uses.
Installers like MC don’t just choose a panel (or inverter or battery) based on specs. They pick one they know – physically, electrically, and mechanically. They understand how it mounts. How it strings. Where to run the cables. What the inverter needs. How to claim warranty. Whose mobile to call for customer support on a Friday evening. They’ve tested it in the real world, over years. It’s all muscle memory. That’s what makes an install clean, fast, and safe.
Bring in a rando panel brand because a customer read about it online, and all that goes out the window. The chance of a screw-up – literal or electrical – goes way up. The job takes longer. The support is slower. And if you’re rotating through multiple subcontractors, good luck knowing if they’ve ever touched that brand before.
Same goes for inverters. Worse for batteries. EV chargers? Don’t get me started.
Stick To What You Know
So, offering to install any panel the customer wants is a great attitude, but it raises the odds of a poor outcome.
Want a good system? Stick to what you know. Fewer brands, deeper knowledge, better support. That’s what gives your customers the best chance of getting a system that works flawlessly for 20 years and quick help if it doesn’t.
With burgers, the customer is king. With solar, trust the cook.
Phase Shift is a weekly opinion column by SolarQuotes founder Finn Peacock. Subscribe to SolarQuotes’ free newsletter to get it emailed to your inbox each week along with our other home electrification coverage.
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Maybe, but if someone has their heart set on a particular product they have got to find someone who can install it! Maybe it is the next wiz bang step in technology and just no one is doing them yet!
But I will concede it is more likely to be because some wanker influencer on instagram with a $300 haircut says they are the bees knees…
MC Electrical…..? Mmmm well they don’t know everything. Their video talking about Sigenergy’s battery system went down like a lead balloon on YouTube. Got so many things wrong that people had to take them to task and post videos disputing ‘facts’ they were saying. I’m surprised they are are a Solar Quotes recommendation with how much they got wrong.
Has anyone had any experience with Pro Solar.
Is there a solarquotes review page?
“The customer is always right” is obviously nonsense, and it shows in any complicated industry. I used to tell my staff in mobile phones retail that if the customer was always right we wouldn’t exist. Your industry is complicated and getting more so. So I’m with you on the premise, but despite the work you and others in your industry do, the expertise of the sales staff in the industry still lacking. I’m close to a decision to upgrade my solar to 17kW panels, Sigenergy 40kW batteries, 30kW Inverter, 25kW DC charger, and I’ve been pretty surprised that the sales staff have significant gaps in their knowledge, or sometimes just fundamentally don’t understand elements of the technology. It’s disappointing.
Hi John,
I went looking for a floor console air conditioner and the salesman in the shop didn’t know which holes the air blew out of.
Despite having a unit on the floor which wasn’t plumbed so you could pull the covers off and move it around, he insisted air went in the bottom & out the top. ie opposite to a hi wall split.
In fact it sucks air in the front & you choose if it goes out the yoo or out at floor level.
It’s the floor level vent that’s good for heating.
Plus being a floor console you can easily clean the filters no matter your age or aversion to ladders.
So simple and yet so frustrating knowing people are just sold the wrong things.
As an experienced air con installer but now working in a different electrical field, floors units do work very well – often slightly more efficient than high wall units, BUT they do have major drawbacks when it comes to damage by pets and children, plus at floor level on a timber floor fill up their filters with dust at twice the rate.
Children and pets love sticking their fingers and paws into floor units, breaking the louvers and shoving piece of paper and toys into them.
You’d have to have rocks in your head if you thought that installing a floor unit with small children now was a good idea. Many a parent and grandparents have regretted their decision to install a floor mount unit, As have Airbnb owners!.
Yeah good point Marcus,
I’m still keen on something you can clean vs something that never does get the attention.
I’m a bit surprised they don’t use better filters to be honest.
Recently saw a church hall with gas removed in favour of 4 high wall units.
The aged parishioners are going to freeze because the units are 4 metres up the wall with raked ceiling above them.
Melbourne? I got 10kW Solar & 38kW goodWe battery installed from them. good job, no complaints. Lovely to deal with. Recommended my one friend to them as well.
No 1 knows every thing.
Solarquotes provides insights, reviews and contextual information to avoid ripoffs for newbies but Stick with what you know and you still, as a customer, get what you’re given. A deal too good to be true may be just that whether it’s a rolling stone or a complete unknown.
Sig has sold like a house on fire because it offers a package of I wants & y didn’t the others think of that and as Anthony Bennett wrote, If It Lives Up To The Claims – It’ll Be Amazing. Good luck finding any body that has muscle memory or 10,000 hours installing it, let alone trouble shooting it – especially outside capital cities.
So, customers should not be allowed to get any inverter brand, other than Fronius?
And, customers should not be allowed to have UPS, but should be stuck with backup switchover times of around ten seconds?
“We are not here to provide service, or, to provide the most appropriate system – the customers exist solely for our pleasure…”
So, what current rating switch would Finn Peacock have installed, for an A/C bypass switch, for a Goodwe GW5000-EH inverter with about 20kW of BESS?
And, what current rating switch would MC Electrical install for the same configuration (apart from MC Electrical not catering for the common people, and refusing top install anything but Fronius)?
Would they really, given that the PV system retailer/installer is always absolutely right, install a 20A , or, even a 25A, rated A/C bypass switch, for an inverter that can draw 10kW from the grid, and, that has a value for “Max. AC Current From Utility Grid (A)” of “43.4”?
Of course they would, and, it would be failsafe, because the customer does not know what they are talking about, when the customer cites the official manufacturer documentation.
And, of course, the manufacturer has no idea of what they are talking about, because the retailer/installer always has absolute and supreme knowledge.
Good point.
For my last installation, the third batch of PV modules, I did specify Tindo panels, because they are “probably” relatively high quality and durable, and I am in a position to support local (ie. Australian) businesses if I want to.
I’ll discuss the points you mention next time.
…what about if the customer REALLY WANTS to turn on their flexible exports, because it’s just become available in their regional SA town, & they’ve just switched to Amber with decent FIT in winter …..BUT the (gold rated solar quotes) installer says they’re not sure how to turn it on …I almost fell off my chair! …I had to call SAPN & ask them how to switch it on and then tell installer I wanted it switched on …OR when they wanted to put our new battery on the side of the house & sell us a $500 sun cover …instead of right next to the switch board, that doesn’t need a cover …the list goes on & on…often the installer might be right but boy oh boy, wowee, even some of the top installers are acting like cowboys of the Wild West, since this battery rebate came about lol
Battery & inverter covers are a simple and highly effective way to reduce heat and extend the life of equipment.
In some instances they’re actually a warranty obligation.
Just started getting quotes for solar batteries and noted installed not fulfilling and itemised quite so you know a breakdown of the costs. I will be challenging the quotes for itemised billing as it is only reasonable to expect this to occur on major purchases… What are your thoughts?
Will reply with the responses I get…
Hi Graham,
While some people feel an itemised quote creates trust others rightly point out you don’t find a Toyota dealer pricing the engine, transmission & wheels separately.
Though I’ll grant you “premium paint” mark up for anything that’s not appliance white does feel like a rort, the problem with itemised quotes is the price conscious retired engineer types start trying to chisel things down.
At the end of the day you need a reasonable price that supports a sustainable business so they’ll be there to answer the phone 9 years into your decade long warranty.
Basically funny time funny money… Consumer should be able to understand how much X panels cost, inverter costs, battery costs. Not that hard, and it doesn’t impact how long a company will stay in business for… Toyota will provide price for the car and any add ons… Called transparency…
Hi Graham,
I used to work at a performance machine shop. The boss poured hours into racing engine quotes.
Our blood would boil when the quote was discarded after 10 seconds perusal.
I’ve dealt with a terrorist masquerading as a solar customer. He’d gathered TWENTY quotes for 20kW of solar.
He wanted the cheapest crowd to offer someone else’s higher itemised STC price to make it cheaper again.
The bloke simply didn’t understand.
STCs are a market value, bought by different aggregators on different terms, so just like equipment wholesale, prices vary.
Explaining in excruciating detail puts installers on a hiding to nowhere.
You’re better off asking for a documented yield estimate for solar (it’s actually part of the rules) and a capability statement that a battery hybrid will run a long or short list of appliances, simultaneously or not, for a specified time.
Once the sticker price has faded in your memory, performance & reliability is the real bottom line.
That’s because all the parts in the Toyota are Toyota parts. The totally confusing way that solar installations are cobbled together – differently by every supplier / installer – requires the customer to understand and be quoted for all the constituent parts, not only in order to compare quotes, but also in order to understand the quality of all components being used.
If you do do some of your own research and think you’re onto something, find someone who has it in their standard stable and experience. Then ask them if your research is on the money. If so, you get the benefit of your research combined with their experience. If not, you’ll discover what you missed & maybe dodge a bullet.
When I was after a heat pump HW system I had heard of not a few cases of problems with supposedly reputable brands. So I asked my air-conditioner guy (who was a stickler for installing only the most reliable & maintainable models of Daikins) whether he had one at home himself and if so what did HE have? He came back with a Sanden ( which was on my list), so 2+2=4.
Well, that piece went down well going on most of those comments. Social media does seem to like hating Fronius. I must say it was reassuring to read in the comments that I am apparently not “common people”. It only cost me an extra $500 for a Fronius inverter to achieve that status as well, back in the over priced covid impacted period.
I do have a bit of a problem with ” And if you’re rotating through multiple subcontractors, good luck knowing if they’ve ever touched that brand before.” I would change that for customers to” And if you accept a quote from a company rotating through multiple subcontractors, good luck”. Biggest mistake you can make is being in a position where you are dealing with a subcontractor rather than the people you are paying.
Companies rotating through contractors shouldn’t be acceptable in this industry.
Trust between customer and product/service suppliers is a problem with the the whole solar/battery industry.
Customers are forced to learn as much about what they’re buying as the installer so they’ll know if they’re getting screwed or not? They are also forced to ask installers “tricky” questions to establish if the installer really has the expertise and knowledge that’s being paid for. If it gets to that point then why would you bother paying someone else to do an installation??..you might as well do it yourself.
Lack of trust would be greatly improved if sales companies were better regulated or even better banned. How many times do you hear of ppl handing over money to a sales company which then outsources installation to a third party? The sales guy stops taking your calls and the installer is not willing to get heavily involved because they’re not legally required to and/or they’re flat tack busy doing new installs.
The solar industry would love to see mandatory sales training or better still, compulsory electrical licence for the company selling the system.
As a potential solar customer, I know I am right. Despite my ethical desire to instal solar and battery, the cost benefit ratio still doesn’t add up for us.
Solar + Battery + New Roof + Electric Stove + Electric Hot Water (approx $50,000) on a small two bedroom house in NSW would mean my payback time for a modest system = 20+ years. Sincerely, the real cost and long payback time is the biggest issue preventing the majority of mid – low income households installing solar.
Jon, i had to replace my roof before i could get solar, but i needed a new roof. I dont consider the 60k i spent on a new roof as part of my costs for installing solar, the house needed it anyway.
But either way, for me, paying the price gouging power companies as little as possible was worth it. Being able to run my air conditioners anytime i like without worrying about how big my next power bill will be is worth it.
Do not replace “the customer is always right” with “the installer is always right”. The installer is running a business trying to maximize their profit and there is nothing wrong with that. But as a Choice article points out: “Hundreds of complaints are filed annually about faulty or underperforming installations” This is higher than for any other system. The Clean Energy Regulator has found unsafe or misconfigured systems are the most common problem. CHOICE Help has seen most consumer complaints around warranty disputes and poor workmanship with the large well-established companies over-represented. Installers tend to use products that give them the largest margin rather than the most suitable product. So “the installer is always right” is not a correct interpretation. Choice:What to Look For in a Solar Installer: 2.Transparent Quotes: “Watch for vague pricing or missing details in system specs.” If the installer is sourcing components cheaply let the customer know.
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. “The installer is always right” can only be written by the installers best friend. Installers are not horrible people but they are never the customers best friend. They are running a business and many have integrity but as Choice points out “Hundreds of complaints are filed annually..”, more than in any other industry. And no, it is not that hard to get it right. There may be cowboys in the industry but the problems extend beyond the cowboys.
The article at no point claims “the installer is always right”, it just makes the case that the customer isn’t always right when it comes to what brand of solar panel their installer should be using. We are a partner of Choice and, like them, regularly inform customers for how to avoid running into problems when buying solar.
The article implies that the installer puts the customers interests well ahead of the installers interests. Ask 5 well regarded installers what are the best panels to install and you will come up with 5 different answers. Why? I suspect that installers will suggest panels that give them the best margins. So there is a bias in the installers advice. That is fine if it is disclosed. The margin is usually not passed on to the customer. “how to avoid running into problems when buying solar.” Only deal with an installer who is upfront with disclosure. Now the problem with Solar Quotes is that the quotes come with a call from Origin Energy. Well let me say, 3 calls from Origin energy, I was forced to block their number in the end. And the 3 quotes from installers turned into 5 at last count.
If you can email the address provided we’ll look into your quote request and see what is going on, as it would be very unusual.
“Be careful about overruling your installer” What! Installers are not saints, they have to run a business. If they have the choice of installing 2 different, equally good panels, they will recommend the panel that gives them the greatest margin. To say any different is like saying installers are bad businessmen. Please, your article sounds like you are in bed with installers. Stay impartial. The installers advice may be more beneficial to the installer than to the customer so all customers need the stay vigilant. The solar industry has many problems as witnessed by the number of complaints.
“the installer is always right” is equally nonsense. The solar industry has more complaints levelled against installers than in any other industry. As Choice points out, the installers have got themselves to blame mainly recommending products that give them the greatest margins. Hundreds of complaints are filed annually with unsafe or misconfigured systems as well as warranty disputes and poor workmanship. And how independant is Solar Quotes when with any quote you must consent to being contacted by Origin Energy who harrass you and don’t want to take no for an anwer.
Finn does not claim “the installer is always right” here, just that the customer isn’t always right. We cover problems with installers all the time and the main reason we exist is to vet installers and improve standards in the industry. As for your issues with Origin, if you could provide some detail to [email protected] we’ll look into it.
The quote about the customer always being right is incomplete – the original source adds “… in matters of taste.”
Which fits this situation. No mustard? Certainly sir. Abominable kludge of brands, specifications, and standards? You’re dreamin’, and you’re on your own.
The Origin Energy numbers that called were: 0483956408 and 040576095 and 0401393584 and 0489906795. Very pushy when you say you are not interested. Timing; Calls were separated by over 24 hours and all said the call was related to Solar Quotes.